Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[MrSmokestack]

@Soul~! Quoting is painful.

It's not a problem to avoid counters if you can rock Quad > Desperation. The only real drawback is that unlike someone like Elincia, she's not usually 2HKO'ing what she isn't quadding (to which I just want to cry when they really think Firesweep > Amiiti).

Except you need to actually get hit in order to proc Desperation. Lots of greens have enough Atk to 2HKO her and if she can’t KO them in four hits—very very likely with how bulky green builds tend to be—she will take a second, lethal counterattack. As a melee unit, Caeda is even more likely to take a counterattack because she can rarely approach ranged units without getting attacked. Ranged units don’t have this problem except against ones with Distant Counter.

Firesweep Lance and Firesweep Sword are exactly the reason why speedy fliers like Tana, Cordelia, and Elinica have become more popular, though. You’re underestimating the sheer difference in Mt between the two weapons. +7 Mt while retaining your Spd tier? And without any possibility of getting countered? Those are huge advantages compared to slapping something twice with 8 Mt and taking a counterattack if you can’t KO.

Firesweep works for high Spd units like Brave works for high Atk units.

Is that like the dumb thing I've seen the other day of a guy trying to make Lolina a "tank"? I mean, at least she rocked something akin to Henry's physical bulk, but it still looks silly...

It’s not a gimmick. Caeda is legitimately frail enough that she can get serious use out of the extra HP and Def to avoid 2HKO’s.

[LordFrigid]

18 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

...Lots of greens have enough Atk to 2HKO her and if she can’t KO them in four hits—very very likely with how bulky green builds tend to be...

What conditions are you using to get that result, out of curiosity?

On the rest of it...I'm inclined to agree that Firesweep is the strongest pure offense option for most use cases, though I'll argue that Brave + Goad Stack is still a strong option, even with her low Atk. I do think Wo Dao has a niche, especially on a DC set, to give her an EP presence that both Firesweep and Brave lack.

I'm biased toward Brave pretty heavily for personal reasons, so take it with a grain of salt when I say that having experimented with all three swords, I would rate my preference as 1. Brave 2. Firesweep 3. Wo Dao.

[Junkhead]

41 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Except you need to actually get hit in order to proc Desperation. Lots of greens have enough Atk to 2HKO her and if she can’t KO them in four hits—very very likely with how bulky green builds tend to be—she will take a second, lethal counterattack. As a melee unit, Caeda is even more likely to take a counterattack because she can rarely approach ranged units without getting attacked. Ranged units don’t have this problem except against ones with Distant Counter.

Dude, it's highly unlikely even the tankiest a Greens will survived getting quad'd + 18-19 burst damage (Iceberg,  I guess). You could even go crazy and give her Glacies, since it's not like it isn't close to garanteed (only needs -1 charge before battle).

I also don't see what the big deal with getting into Desperation is. For the sake of hypothetics, I guess if you always assume she's getting 1HKO/1RKO'd, then yeah, it's a problem. In an actual, real scenario, I rarely have trouble getting there, even with my -Spd Sonya .

41 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Firesweep Lance and Firesweep Sword are exactly the reason why speedy fliers like Tana, Cordelia, and Elinica have become more popular, though. You’re underestimating the sheer difference in Mt between the two weapons. +7 Mt while retaining your Spd tier? And without any possibility of getting countered? Those are huge advantages compared to slapping something twice with 8 Mt and taking a counterattack if you can’t KO.

Firesweep works for high Spd units like Brave works for high Atk units.

Maybe it sounds like I'm handwaving the ability to not get countered. Maybe you're right. Maybe Quad just garantees better offense more often than not.

41 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

It’s not a gimmick. Caeda is legitimately frail enough that she can get serious use out of the extra HP and Def to avoid 2HKO’s.

In that case, you may as well just focus on making the best out of a character and not bothering on bringing said stats up. It's not like it makes a massive difference as to what their role is.

[Vaximillian]

5 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Genny and Nino are all you need. Maybe someday others will understand that.

Sharena.

[Anacybele]

2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Congrats, it's nice to get more merges for your favorites.  I tried pulling Green for my freebie and got a 4* Barst.  Not what I was hoping for, but Reposition is always nice.

I wouldn't mind more Reposition fodder right now, honestly. xP

[MrSmokestack]

2 hours ago, LordFrigid said:

What conditions are you using to get that result, out of curiosity?

Caeda:

Spoiler

+Atk -Res

Brave Sword+

[Assist]

Luna

Life and Death 3

Desperation 3

[C Passive]

[240 SP Seal]

36 / 42 / 37 / 19 / 26

Hone Fliers for 48 Atk / 43 Spd

Hector:

Spoiler

+Def -Spd

Caeda does 17x4, 5x4 (36 + 15 = 51) with 3 stacks of Ward Armor. Hector does 22x2. When Ward Armor is up Caeda dies.

Brave Ike:

Spoiler

+Def -Spd

Bonfire (+21), Ignis (~+34), Aether (+19)

Quick Riposte 3

Caeda does 15x4

With Desperation: 15 + 3 + 3 + 7 = 28

Without Desperation: 15 + 3 = 18

Brave Ike does 22x2. All specials OHKO on the counter.

Beorc’s Blessing though.

I apologize for the exaggeration. It probably would have been better to say that Caeda can have a hard time picking up KOs since Brave weapons don’t do very much for her Mt.

Caeda is also reliant on special procs within a round of combat, so Guard on an enemy unit can freeze her KOs. That’s a separate matter entirely though.

Having a preference is fine. If I built a Caeda I would most likely use a DC Wo Dao build for her to handle mages though.

2 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Maybe Quad just guarantees better offense more often than not.

Quad builds are borderline gimmicks in my opinion because not only do you need a stupidly high base Spd to stomach the Brave penalty, you also need to set it up by taking damage, easier said than done. The raw results are incredible, sure, but I could also opt to Firesweep everything instead and not worry about getting hit.

Quote

In that case, you may as well just focus on making the best out of a character and not bothering on bringing said stats up. It's not like it makes a massive difference as to what their role is.

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V

On 11/28/2017 at 11:29 AM, DLNarshen said:

Yeah, +Def is looking real appealing right now.  In addition to the +5 Hp she'll be able to take on 2 of either Dorcas, Hector, or B!Ike at +10 and survive as a +3.  +Atk Dorcas is dicey, but I guess ally support helps mitigate that somewhat.

2 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Sharena.

Sharena is a happy complement, but by no means necessary.

Also this:

On 12/9/2017 at 11:32 AM, LordFrigid said:

When used in an offensive role, Caeda's low base Atk absolutely requires a strong flier-based support structure to be effective, and even then, Caedas that rely on Desperation for performance sustainability will have difficulty with Brave Mercenary Ike unless he is dealt with first. She also strongly prefers to have a special activation to help ensure KOs. When used in a defensive or support-oriented role, Caeda suffers from low base Def, leaving her hard-pressed to deal with multiple Axe wielders in the same match.

Remind me to not post on mobile again.

Oh wait I still will.

Edited December 23, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Vaximillian]

10 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Sharena is a happy complement, but by no means necessary.

Sharena is not a complement, you filthy heretic.

I still ❤ you though.

[Tybrosion]

2 hours ago, Arcanite said:

But Fjorm's attack stat...

...isn’t the dumpster fire that the old man there has. Sure, it’s not particularly good but it’s sufficient enough against mages.

[LordFrigid]

18 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

It probably would have been better to say that Caeda can have a hard time picking up KOs since Brave weapons don’t do very much for her Mt.

Caeda is also reliant on special procs within a round of combat, so Guard on an enemy unit can freeze her KOs. That’s a separate matter entirely though.

Having a preference is fine. If I built a Caeda I would most likely use a DC Wo Dao build for her to handle mages though.

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I definitely agree on the low Mt point; imo the Brave route practically requires Goad Stacking because of 1) magnitude of the Atk & Spd stack and 2) buff negation/reversal. I like to break out the DC/Wo Dao every now and again, myself. It's fun to watch mages bounce right off of her, especially on Defense tile weeks.

~

In other news, I ran into a team of 4x 5* +10 Catria in an AA practice match; all of them had different sets (Brave, Ridersbane, Slaying, & Firesweep)...it was quite the sight to behold.

[Kaden]

I just realized how appropriate it is that Karel's HP lets him run Panic Ploy effectively. He was created before Luke and Panic Ploy were introduced, but the idea of Blazing Sword Karel causing panic makes a lot of sense given who he is.

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

+Atk -Res

Brave Sword+

[Assist]

Luna

Life and Death 3

Desperation 3

[C Passive]

[240 SP Seal]

36 / 42 / 42 / 19 / 26

Hone Fliers for 48 Atk / 48 Spd

  Reveal hidden contents

+Def -Spd

Caeda does 17x4, 5x4 (36 + 15 = 51) with 3 stacks of Ward Armor. Hector does 22x2. When Ward Armor is up Caeda dies.

  Reveal hidden contents

+Def -Spd

Bonfire (+21), Ignis (~+34), Aether (+19)

Quick Riposte 3

Caeda does 15x4

With Desperation: 15 + 3 + 3 + 7 = 28

Without Desperation: 15 + 3 = 18

Brave Ike does 22x2. All specials OHKO on the counter.

Beorc’s Blessing though.

 

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

I apologize for the exaggeration. It probably would have been better to say that Caeda can have a hard time picking up KOs since Brave weapons don’t do very much for her Mt.

Caeda is also reliant on special procs within a round of combat, so Guard on an enemy unit can freeze her KOs. That’s a separate matter entirely though.

Quad builds are borderline gimmicks in my opinion because not only do you need a stupidly high base Spd to stomach the Brave penalty, you also need to set it up by taking damage, easier said than done. The raw results are incredible, sure, but I could also opt to Firesweep everything instead and not worry about getting hit.

It seriously isn't a big deal. It's one of those things you'd just throw worst case scenario against, and it still takes massive massive amounts of Atk to legitimately oneshot her as a Green, and she can probably still take a physical Red before actually dying. It's the same regarding Guard, and it's probably only real use would be to annoy your enemy on a Defense Team. People really aren't running skills like those and Deflects as much as they should to be a problem, as of yet. And as for Ike, he's a massive outlier (hello three Deflects in one).

Quad isn't a gimmick, it's just probably harder to pull off, or about as much. You do need really good Spd, which is why certain characters take advantage of it to not only neglect said deficit, but also to really amp their offensive prowess. Caeda in something like +Atk, Fury, Spd+3 Seal has 38 Spd with a Brave and before other external buffs, such as their respective Hone and Goads.

[MrSmokestack]

13 minutes ago, LordFrigid said:

I definitely agree on the low Mt point; imo the Brave route practically requires Goad Stacking because of 1) magnitude of the Atk & Spd stack and 2) buff negation/reversal.

Goad stacking is fun. I use Hone and Fortify on my team because 85 Atk / 46 Spd Witch Nowi is balanced, kappa.

Quote

In other news, I ran into a team of 4x 5* +10 Catria in an AA practice match; all of them had different sets (Brave, Ridersbane, Slaying, & Firesweep)...it was quite the sight to behold.

I really want to build a Catria. I still have my freebie one and I can give her Firesweep from Roderick. But feathers.

[Kaden]

13 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I really want to build a Catria. I still have my freebie one and I can give her Firesweep from Roderick. But feathers.

Would you like my +Spd, -Res Catria and 20k feathers out of my 243k feathers? :p

[LordFrigid]

26 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Goad stacking is fun. I use Hone and Fortify on my team because 85 Atk / 46 Spd Witch Nowi is balanced, kappa.

Yeah, I was kinda bummed that I had to take -blade off the table to make it work, but ultimately my Caeda favoritism prevailed. I still -blade-dumpster PvE when I get the chance though.

10 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Would you like my +Spd, -Res Catria and 20k feathers out of my 243k feathers? :p

That self-control, though. I probably would have given in to the impulse to throw together a merge project by that point.

[Kaden]

40 minutes ago, LordFrigid said:

That self-control, though. I probably would have given in to the impulse to throw together a merge project by that point.

Less of self-control and more of my way of playing just leads to me not using stuff and not having much incentive to build anyone. If a flying archer, flying healer, flying mage, red cavalry mage, axe or lance knight or axe cavalry cavalry with legendary, high defense sword flier, so anything that hasn't been covered yet dropped as a GHB or TT, then I would definitely invest in them. If a TT boss shows up and worried about how I would even beat them on hard, then I would build someone, but that hasn't happened since the Black Knight. Maybe if the upcoming TT boss was winter M!Robin because of how bulky he is in general, but not regular M!Robin who F!Robin could probably counter mostly because of her default B Tomebreaker.

That, and lack of certain skills like I would like to build a Palla, but I just summoned my first Wo Dao user through Karel and he's not going away unless he invites like 4 Athenas and 4 other Karels. Another, second Mathilda would probably lead me to dumping Ridersbane+ on Clive because why not.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Kaden

[Flying Shogi]

Trained Florina to level 39. Too frail for a melee unit in my opinion. Already have a Bartre trained up so all that's left is to train Laslow for the upcoming quests.

[mampfoid]

11 hours ago, Soul~! said:

It's okay, that doesn't matter.

How do people raise so many feathers to +3-4 merge F2P? Doesn't that delay other characters' progression (skillset)?

Yep, because of that it took me a long while before to give someone a merge on purpose (Cordelia for my arena team). It's a pity that most new skills are 5* exclusive, sooner or later you will run out of interesting units to promote. 

10 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

 

Hero Merit is for the weak and desperate @Arcanite

@Rafiel's Aria 

 

10 hours ago, Arcanite said:

I like how this is an obligatory mention lol

But yes, grinding hero merit is indeed for the weak and desperate. Why the kek are you grinding when the feathers will come anyway? Using some useless garbage like Laslow just to get some extra feathers or something

Despicable

Blasphemous

And most of all

  Hide contents

 

Now I feel weak, lol. What else should I do with my stamina until TTs?

9 hours ago, Anacybele said:

@Rezzy @Arcanite

Guess who pulled a 5 star Freddy and another merge for her favorite husband? :3

47 atk and 46 def now is so awesome. That's 53 atk and 52 def with Hone Cav and Fortify Cav boosts!

I squeed when I saw Frederick on that banner! I was like YES! And when I pulled him without having to buy more orbs, I was like YESSSS!!

Cool that's 57 ATK and 56 DEF with buffs and TT boosted stats. ;-)

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Cool that's 57 ATK and 56 DEF with buffs and TT boosted stats. ;-)

Man, crazy stats there!

[mampfoid]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Man, crazy stats there!

Add ATK seal plus Death Blow and you are up to 66 ATK. You can raise that only with other merges and Goad Cav. 

/Edit: forgot that one of the new A passives can give 1 more attack than Death Blow, but I guess it's out of question. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by mampfoid

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Add ATK seal plus Death Blow and you are up to 66 ATK. You can raise that only with other merges and Goad Cav. 

/Edit: forgot that one of the new A passives can give 1 more attack than Death Blow, but I guess it's out of question. 

Yeah, good point! I might consider that for this TT, if I do it.

[mampfoid]

9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, good point! I might consider that for this TT, if I do it.

Another option would be Galeforce and QP seal, that's a very fun combination especially on a brave Cav unit in multi map modes like TTs. 

The QP will reduce Freddies special counter by one on the beginning of every map. Even if he would not be engaged in the first three maps, he could proc Galeforce immediately with his first attack in map four. 

Galeforce would raise your arena score (if he doesn't run Aether). 

Edited December 23, 2017 by mampfoid

[LordFrigid]

21 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Cool that's 57 ATK and 56 DEF with buffs and TT boosted stats. ;-)

I thought Tempest Buffs were +10 HP, +4 to everything else. Or am I wrong/missing something?

Edited December 23, 2017 by LordFrigid

[mampfoid]

Just now, LordFrigid said:

I thought Tempest Buffs were +10 HP, +4 to everything else. Or am I wrong/missing something?

No that's right. +4 ATK on a +4 merged and buffed Freddy. Or did I make an error in the addition?

[LordFrigid]

3 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

No that's right. +4 ATK on a +4 merged and buffed Freddy. Or did I make an error in the addition?

Oh, I see now. I didn't notice the Cav buffs note below the screen shot. My bad.

Edited December 23, 2017 by LordFrigid

[mampfoid]

Just now, LordFrigid said:

Oh, I see now. I didn't notice the Hone Cav note below the screen shot. My bad.

Let's see how much HP lunatic/7 Robin will get, probably @Anacybeles Freddy will one-round him.