General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Jotari]

35 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yeah. The original context of the discussion was "what Urvan is good for", and I don't consider "stopping enemies with Desperation" to be one of those things because if an enemy has Desperation active, you screwed up somewhere big time.

 

And even ignoring Desperation, Celica erases Brave Ike regardless.

Well there is Levin on some maps with his anti desperation. Personally I've never had an Urvan Ike (and if I did I'd probably cannibalize him for that A skill) but I could see him being useful without distant counter for aggroing enemies on some of those more difficult Grand Hero Battles where figuring out how to survive the enemy's opening assualt is the hardest part. I run Distant Counter on Sigurd which I sometimes remove for Distant/Close Defense for that very purpose.

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Jotari

[Hilda]

we can discuss how much we want the fact remain that any refine/weapon that doesnt  help you killor survive dragons/armorers is kinda trash for Assault. But then again the meta had shifted in Arena itself, where any weapon/unit that doesnt give enough utility is kinda trash. in that regard i think the Tierlist should be split for AA and Arena. I would consider infantry healers now top tier for Regular Arena due to the cheerleading they can provide.

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Hilda said:

in that regard i think the Tierlist should be split for AA and Arena.

There is zero point in making a tier list for a game mode where you can preview the enemy team and counter-pick them.

 

21 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I would consider infantry healers now top tier for Regular Arena due to the cheerleading they can provide.

Staff units are only tiered against each other on the Gamepedia tier list as indicated both in the explanation at the top of the page and by the thick, black line separating the column from other columns. A tier list with all members occupying the exact same tier is pointless.

[redlight]

@colossus86@Ice Dragon Apologies. I came off as too harsh towards Urvan. It definitely isn't Tyrfing or unrefined Fujin Yumi tier, but I consider it as good as unrefined Myssiletain and Hauteclere

I thought I'd try predicting the weapon effects

 

Florina

• Florina's Lance (16 Mt)- If foe initiates combat, grants Def/Res+6 during combat.
• Refinement- At start of turn, all foes in cardinal directions with Res 1 or more lower than unit suffer Atk/Def-4 until the end of foe's next action.

Bartre 

• Axe of Virility (16 Mt)- Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). Effective against armored foes.
• Refinement- Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3. Unit takes 6 damage after combat

Saber

• Golden Dagger (16 Mt)- Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). Restores 30% of damage dealt when Special triggers during combat.
• Refinement- If unit has 100% HP at the start of combat, unit receives Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4. If attacking, unit will receive 4 damage after combat.

Shanna

• Shanna's Lance (16 Mt)- Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). Effective against cavalry units
• Refinement- At start of turn, all foes in cardinal directions with Res 1 or more lower than unit suffer Spd/Def-4 until the end of foe's next action.

[Ice Dragon]

Shanna's Lance is Hauteclere.

[redlight]

Saber. Cooldown trigger -1. Conditional DC and +3 to all stats if special is ready at start of combat

Florina. Armor effective and spectrum stance 2

Bartre. Armor effective and fury

Shanna. Nameless Blade lance

[Ice Dragon]

It looks like Saber can do some absolutely silly bullshit like Pavise/Aegis + Steady/Warding Breath + Shield Pulse. Also Bonfire + Special Spiral.

Hauteclere is always a solid weapon.

Florina's weapon is okay. It forces her to drop Glacies down to Iceberg, but getting +4 to all stats is a good trade.

Bartre is Bartre.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[Xenomata]

Looking at Golden Dagger, it only says if Special is ready, not if Special will trigger...

Does that mean Saber just always has all stat +3 and Distant Counter so long as his Special is available? Because if so... wow.

Otherwise the other weapons sound okay for the most part. Very underwhelming upgrades from their original weapons IMO, given that they're all literally the same weapon but slightly stronger, but then it's not like we were asking for a lot either.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Looking at Golden Dagger, it only says if Special is ready, not if Special will trigger...

Does that mean Saber just always has all stat +3 and Distant Counter so long as his Special is available? Because if so... wow.

Yes. That means if you have Pavise up and attack or get attacked by a ranged unit, he'll have Distant Counter and +3 to all stats. And he'll still have Pavise up for the next round of combat.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

19 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It looks like Saber can do some absolutely silly bullshit like Pavise/Aegis + Steady/Warding Breath + Shield Pulse. Also Bonfire + Special Spiral.

Hauteclere is always a solid weapon.

Florina's weapon is okay. It forces her to drop Glacies down to Iceberg, but getting +4 to all stats is a good trade.

Bartre is Bartre.

I expected a 90 page essay why 3 on every stats totally change Bartre into a new otherwordly unit

 

I am disapoint

 

Otoh Shanna looks pretty godly? Iirc shes the strongest Hauteclere clones offensive specs wise

 

Guess Basilikos Lance is coming

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I expected a 90 page essay why 3 on every stats totally change Bartre into a new otherwordly unit

It will be 90 pages, each with only a single, giant capital "A" printed on it.

 

3 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Otoh Shanna looks pretty godly? Iirc shes the strongest Hauteclere clones offensive specs wise

Shanna has 30/35 offenses. Minerva has 31/33. Michalis 34/26. Fir 25/36. Karel 30/35.

So she's a flying lance Karel.

[Xenomata]

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yes. That means if you have Pavise up and attack or get attacked by a ranged unit, he'll have Distant Counter and +3 to all stats. And he'll still have Pavise up for the next round of combat.

Hm... then he could theoretically run with Moonbow, Quick Riposte or Vantage, and Quickened Pulse to always have an offensive Special handy to, that is if he is willing to forego the defensive boost offered by Pavise/Aegis. Alternatively, Escutcheon/Sacred Cowl and Quickened Pulse would let him run a different A slot.

I don't think Saber needs one of the Breaths by the way. Assuming he were to be hit and counterattack, he'd have Pavise/Aegis ready by battles end unless the enemy had Guard, Special Fighter, or any of The Lands Bounty weapons, which given the tiers I assume he'd be most viable at I find doubtful.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Xenomata

[Baldrick]

Guess who just went directly to the top of my refine queue, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dew?

[ILikeKirbys]

In theory, Saber can run Golden Dagger [Eff] / Miracle / Fortress DEF/RES 3 / Guard 3 / ATK Smoke 3 / Quickened Pulse, have 3 teammates with Infantry Pulse and higher HP than him (preferably one refresher, one Healer to keep Saber from taking a lethal hit, and either a second refresher or an extra-high-HP unit who can also run Panic Ploy), and just always have Distant Counter & +3 to everything all the time, and have some pretty alright defenses in the meantime (41 DEF & 31 RES, and that's before any buffs you're getting from his teammates). It probably isn't all that great, but I think it's pretty neat.

Also, glad to see Florina got a good weapon. Definitely 5-Starring her if I ever pull a +DEF or +RES/-SPD or -HP one now, as I've been meaning to for a while (just gotta get a good one).

Edited November 8, 2018 by ILikeKirbys
Sadly, there is no Quickened Pulse 3

[Nowi's Husband]

Florina's refine is great, used the dew on her right away.  I had a super budget TA + Swordbreaker on her before but now I'm thinking of giving her QR and Steady Stance (once I get another Silas) so she can be a general anti-armor unit instead of only sword.  

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, ILikeKirbys said:

Quickened Pulse 3

I wish...

[Stroud]

Bartre was expected, but I am happy because my Speed + Bartre really gets a good use of this. I can give him Desperation and punish red armored units.
If I would merge him to +10 he would have 41 Speed and 62 attack with Speed + 2 on his seal, teamed up with Karla he will be pushed to 47 Speed. 

The rest will have to wait. I want to gather feathers/grails now. 

Sadly I he still makes no use of Vengeance. I would like to see a Unit with it who is not Arden. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Stroud

[redlight]

Saber's weapon might seem impressive at first glance, but it's rathrr eh. On par with Young Ike from what I heard considering he was bottom tier

Florina definitely incredible. Now with that new seal coming in the next TT, she'll be force to be reckoned with

Shanna's Lance lowkey busted. Definitely a good weapon

Axe of Virility could be something people would use to meme speed and other stats. Might not be that exciting, but it gets the job done

[Garlyle]

I'm going for Shanna. I don't have Saber, Florina needs something else I think, and Bartre is ... let's just say not what I need right now. But looks true to his character.

[Diovani Bressan]

None of them interested me. Don't get me wrong... they got good refinements, but...

Well... my Divine Dews are safe... again... I have 630 Divine Dews now, and I believe the last time I used it was with Alfonse's refinement.

[bottlegnomes]

4 hours ago, silveraura25 said:

Saber's weapon might seem impressive at first glance, but it's rathrr eh. On par with Young Ike from what I heard considering he was bottom tier

Statwise, I can kinda see that. He ends up with 43/50/36/35/25. His big advantage is that speed gap, and more importantly, killer DC weapon. I'd say it's definitely an improvement and on someone with a better distributed statline, it could be scary, but yeah, Saber probably won't be shaking up the meta.

[Garlyle]

Hmm, checked my Shanna, and she is Spd-, so I'll hold on my Dew until I get a better version of her (prefer Spd+). She is so rare for me, I'd be glad to get her with perfect IV before I commit myself.

[bottlegnomes]

So the introduction of yet another Hauteclere reskin got me wondering. You think we'll ever see a Berserk Armads reskin or do you think they maybe decided that was a little too powerful? If they gave it to a cav or flier, it doesn't seem like it would be too broken since they can't stack wrath.

Totally not asking because I want Catria to get one to vindicate my decision to build her instead of Shanna whom I also seriously considered.

[Kaden]

The introduction of Sagittae and its effect made me think of a possibly really dumb idea. So, Sagittae's effect takes the condition of the foe having 5 or more attack than Kliff to give him Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 in combat. I thought what if there was a weapon that takes into the condition of the foe having more speed to activate its effect? The first character that came to mind was Lukas, but it really could go to anyone who is already in the game with low speed and no personal weapon or a future unit.

The base would be this: At start of combat, if foe's Spd ≥ unit's Spd+5, . . ." If you want to be more evil, then just "foe's Spd > unit's Spd". With them being slow, a simple boost would be to give them at least Def/Res+6 or perhaps even more like Def/Res+10. The latter could break some characters like Lukas would end up with 48 defense just for being slower than his opponent. He'd also have 27 resistance if that matters. Or they could get an attack boost and whatever defensive boost that would make sense for them. Another thing would be to give them a speed check version of Guard considering they would be doubled and preventing their opponent from activating there special would help them survive or deal more damage if the foe is using a damage reduction special. We can go beyond that and give it Special Fighter instead, but that would probably push things, especially considering if their personal weapon somehow has a Killer effect as its base effect. For example, Beruka, Hawkeye, and Lukas retaining the Killer effect for their new weapon where Hawkeye is essentially an infantry unit with an armor stat spread and no access to armor exclusive skills.

Beruka, Hawkeye, and Lukas in particular have Killer weapons as their default weapon. Regular Henry has both low attack and speed, so he could have either check, but a copy of Sagittae probably wouldn't be as ideal since regular Henry doesn't really want speed as far as I know. Lyon I could see working this as a unique refinement for Naglfar. Effie, Oliver, and Sophia having Silver weapons means their new weapon could end up with anything for its base effect. The list goes on.

[Jingle Jangle]

That's why I and others in the past doubted how underdog skills requirements would work in the game @Kaden. It encourages more mix-maxing I feel in stat lines.