We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Killthestory]

1 hour ago, Makaze said:

I guess

I also think the way hes like actively not reading LG's content despite major wagon bothers me
like he doesn't have ANY thoughts on him? what is that. then like, ill do it tomorrow, sorry bro? this has NO value for a town to do

@Killthestory ill make it easy and copy his entire ISO here for you. No work on your end

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originally i didn't wanna quote this because it's a bitch to do on mobile. well, whatever. wait, where be my quoteth button? fuck it we're doing it live baby

Going to kill myself this got eaten when i was on page 32. I'm doing this much more quickly than I was previously so don't hesitate to ask for clarification on any reads/ comments I have, mostly am just going through game thread blind with my reads at end of post. I want people to know i'm not trying to brush this game off, here's what I have atm.

Gaius notes:

page 2-3: I think walrein's setup spec is fine opposed to typical RVS bs, it's all filler content in the end until something happens. Via / walrein interactions strongly suggest to me they are not scum / scum, I don't think buddies would be this conversational early. Via Role / Eclipse role are NAI. 

page 4-5: I think a lot of people are reading scum! Athena tonally as opposed to anything he's really said or done, wrt stuff like how he overexplained himself. Zeus bothers me much more with a halfassed meta post and nothing else of note even though there's definitely a bit more we can chew on at this phase. Gonna assume zkirsche is kirsche until someone corrects me. Agree with his assessment of BBM's play, don't understand how Refa finds his analysis scummy. Refa's been doing the thing where he asks a lot of questions and I scumread him for it, but I haven't really given him a chance to do something with his info and he's town half the time I do this so gonna hold off on that. Bibbon and Zeus have had the most egrigious posts so far, but I've never played with either of them and have no idea what they do ED1. 

page 6: Bartozio has a good distinction on Satsuma's slot wrt avoiding giving reads vs not having them, would sheep / 10. Shinori says some things I agree w/ minus Athena, that slot hasn't done much scummy from what i've seen. Satsuma goes straight into some OMGUS as soon as called out by bartozio and athena, I'm starting to get something more concrete here. misreading role PMs happens not going to let it affect my reads. 

page 7: Weapons seems to be playing in line with his town meta, will probably need to wait to see some more interactions before I have a better read than gut on him, he's right about satsuma and zeus in any case. 

Eclipse: "There's several types of tells in a game.  Some are hard tells, like someone spilling information that they shouldn't know (say, a claimed BP posting someone else's role).  Others are soft tells, things that are subconsciously done as we play the game.  Your recent posts are responses to people - in other words, passive play.  Yet you're being awfully pushy with your lone read.  This kind of disconnect is a soft tell - in this case, a scum tell." 

When someone is under fire they have to defend themselves? This doesn't sit right with me, why are we playing if not to push our scumreads and convince other people we're town? You threw a bunch of buzz words into a paragraph that don't really make sense together.

i read the initial starting pages up to 7, and his thoughts seem pretty genuine to me. again, i don't reasonably agree with the conclusions because lol scum can fake convos super easy and setup spec is very baseless. i do like how he goes against thread consensus and states that he believes athen was being clearly misread. that read the same to me, too, as i thought athena was being pretty genuine whereas thread didn't agree. dislike his zeus and reus or whatever his name was reads. i liked both zeus and reus' posting tbh. i don't think the read is contrived. the way he reaches his conclusions seems pretty alright to me. i liked seeing how his mind was rolling, and it didn't seem like he was making reads for the sake of making reads.

plus, his analysis on the reads we push and making plays to defend ourselves is relatable and aggreeable. not saying that in particular alludes to him being town, but i think him taking offense to something out of game to where he feels the need to correct it is town motivated. most people as wolves are too focused on self pres.

i could keep goin along with his content like this, but the post that rly struck him as town to me was this.

I'm pretty demotivated to play because every time I sub into a game I just get mislynched. I'm paperblade town bookie, if I predict correctly I get a vig shot. This is why i was alluding to SK kill on Shinori earlier. I'll try and do some reads later, not feeling up to it right now. 

it just doesn't feel contrived or wolfy. usually apathy by wolves is very theatrical and attention grabbing because wolves are desperate for townreads and use it as a last resort. there's none of that here. he's just sort of casually done with the game and apathetic over being mislynched each and every sub. that's a pretty relatable mindset. this is also considering i wrote this post.

how can you say it doesn't look like LG is solving? i mean, it looks clear to me that he's making progressive reads even though they're wrong. going back to the bussing point again, someone said there's a lot of bussing going on. town is kicking ass right now, and that's likely because wolves were biding their time and building up deepwolves to counter any town presence later on? that's the only play that makes sense if town is kicking ass in your own words, so explain this. LG removes all towncred he could gain from bussing by tring from what i understand both major wagons in which junkoooooo flipped scum. he then continues to make reads and seems to reach them naturally only to get to this point where scum are banking on him and his partner, and he decides to just quit? i don't give a fuck about his role, that just doesn't seem right as a wolf. the wagon is gross, and i'm gonna look into each person voting there. that shit stinks. shoot me an lg townread, son. i'm pro Gaius, but i also am Gaius. that might mean im arrogant LOL

[Killthestory]

i don't think i've ever been this frustrated at code on a site

[Makaze]

Okay

Why isn't LG here in your opinion and why isn't that absence wolfy?

[Killthestory]

16 minutes ago, Makaze said:

tl;dr i'm not surprised you're casing me

i don't think you're actually shook. i think this entire appealing to others for help with meta bullshit is nothing short of theater

and the only thing that can clear my mind if you giving nuanced reads with specific examples about my scum reads

because I don't buy that you actually have thoughts i think you know too much

appealing to meta? that's a new one lol. i wonder what meta i'm appealing to, but maybe ur just referring to my dad. his name is meta btw.

if i knew too much wouldn't i just throw you a read and stick go it? asking for meta seems to imply the opposite mister.

also, i think throwing out conclusions is sorta what i do lol. u can get on my case for it, sure, but at that point youd just be gettin on my playstyle. yolo warned me that if i played here id have to open up my head more, but im just not that type of player lol.

@Arcanite what question? also, it was pretty drastic considering you shot me a blanket townread before you realized i wasn't really going to change my read on u lmao.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Quote

 

i read the initial starting pages up to 7, and his thoughts seem pretty genuine to me. again, i don't reasonably agree with the conclusions because lol scum can fake convos super easy and setup spec is very baseless. i do like how he goes against thread consensus and states that he believes athen was being clearly misread. that read the same to me, too, as i thought athena was being pretty genuine whereas thread didn't agree. dislike his zeus and reus or whatever his name was reads. i liked both zeus and reus' posting tbh. i don't think the read is contrived. the way he reaches his conclusions seems pretty alright to me. i liked seeing how his mind was rolling, and it didn't seem like he was making reads for the sake of making reads.

plus, his analysis on the reads we push and making plays to defend ourselves is relatable and aggreeable. not saying that in particular alludes to him being town, but i think him taking offense to something out of game to where he feels the need to correct it is town motivated. most people as wolves are too focused on self pres.

i could keep goin along with his content like this, but the post that rly struck him as town to me was this.

it just doesn't feel contrived or wolfy. usually apathy by wolves is very theatrical and attention grabbing because wolves are desperate for townreads and use it as a last resort. there's none of that here. he's just sort of casually done with the game and apathetic over being mislynched each and every sub. that's a pretty relatable mindset. this is also considering i wrote this post.

 

I isolated out the part that's Kill's own input on the things he quoted for easier reading.

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Okay

Why isn't LG here in your opinion and why isn't that absence wolfy?

i think like he said he's just demotivated and doesn't want to play? why would that absence be normally considered wolfy when wolf team is banking on him and his teammate to win? 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

##Vote: Arcanite

[Killthestory]

@SatsumaFSoysoy ty

[Killthestory]

Just now, Omega. said:

##Vote: Arcanite

lol im glad im not the only player to see that major level of wtf

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Killthestory said:

appealing to meta? that's a new one lol. i wonder what meta i'm appealing to, but maybe ur just referring to my dad. his name is meta btw.

if i knew too much wouldn't i just throw you a read and stick go it? asking for meta seems to imply the opposite mister.

also, i think throwing out conclusions is sorta what i do lol. u can get on my case for it, sure, but at that point youd just be gettin on my playstyle. yolo warned me that if i played here id have to open up my head more, but im just not that type of player lol.

@Arcanite what question? also, it was pretty drastic considering you shot me a blanket townread before you realized i wasn't really going to change my read on u lmao.

what i meant was you were asking others about my scum games. i always read that as gas lighting because you're not doing homework yourself -- you're inviting others to convince you i am mafia for you

i believe you don't have enough of a case and don't want to make yourself look bad by just simply omgusing me after strongly town reading me multiple times. you wanted permission first

i never reference or ask for meta reads partially because of this but i also think they are trash and subjective to the person. if you are town and lg is town then I am not sure who else makes sense as mafia, which is what it comes down to

Arcanite is possible but he can't be the only one

[Baldrick]

@Killthestory

I'm more working on PoE, the people I'm not townreading are snike, you, arcanite, sully and LG.

Sully I haven't read, but I didn't find your read on him objectionable.

LG hasn't been around in a while, I still want to give him a chance to prove his role.

Snike/kirsche has that deadline D2 interaction, snike today has been townie, you I am still neutral on because I'm not sure whether I jumped the gun or you were backtracking.

Arcanite I'm seeing progress on, once they put a vote down I can make a decision.

There's about 18 hours left, I sleep in 8 hours then work in the morning, so where I vote tonight will probably be where I am phase end.

[Makaze]

2 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

i think like he said he's just demotivated and doesn't want to play? why would that absence be normally considered wolfy when wolf team is banking on him and his teammate to win? 

Because if it keeps him from getting killed then it's a good strategy. This is a WIFOM argument. What I know he isn't doing is helping the town. It's a next level play, sure, but if it was actually a bad idea, then he'd be getting lynched for it. Also, it's possible that he isn't actually "gone" but is waiting in the wings? I don't know how he hasn't at least showed up by now.

[Iris]

Day 3.18
Arcanite (7): Refa, via, Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, athena_57, Walrein, Killthestory, Omega.
Lord Gaius (5): Kaoz, Fable, SullyMcGully, Makaze
Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy (2): Mackc2, Alette
Walrein (1): Lord Gaius

Not Voting: Arcanite, Baldrick

There are ~17.5 hours left in the day. With 16 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 11 to hammer.

[Makaze]

@SatsumaFSoysoy @Snike

Are you still scumreading Mack? Why or why not?

[Makaze]

I had been meaning to ask this for a while but got caught up in the Kill tunnel. Sorry.

[Makaze]

At least I know Arc/Kill is never w/w

I am okay with this lynch but I am not satisfied that we have all of the mafia

[Makaze]

Assuming that multiple of my town reads are right and I am tunneling on town (LG)

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

what i meant was you were asking others about my scum games. i always read that as gas lighting because you're not doing homework yourself -- you're inviting others to convince you i am mafia for you

i believe you don't have enough of a case and don't want to make yourself look bad by just simply omgusing me after strongly town reading me multiple times. you wanted permission first

i never reference or ask for meta reads partially because of this but i also think they are trash and subjective to the person. if you are town and lg is town then I am not sure who else makes sense as mafia, which is what it comes down to

Arcanite is possible but he can't be the only one

i wouldn't know where to do homework lol. i'm sorta all over the place with this site, and i've just been referencing yolo when i need help. ur totally right tho LOL i was "gas lighting" u when you started coming at me that LG knew i was LG before i knew i was LG. that thought procesd just seemed so ridiculous i couldn't help but laugh and crack jokes at it. 

well, i don't think as wolf i omgus you there anyway bc i had already hit with a solid townread that i looked like i wasn't rescinding. self meta is a lil icky, so i'll let someone else say it for me.

re: KTS  

i'm familiar enough with KTS' game to have some meta understanding of him, and while he is someone who is aggro in both roles I think one of his major differences is:  

Village!KTS will push and interact but his reads, or his core understanding of the game, remains very malleable - he takes stuff away from his interaction and constantly develops and redevelops his reads and is not afraid to make changes. Discussions /w him are more productive than talking to a wall.  

Wolf!KTS will push and interact but he usually sticks to most of his reads. He wants to "seem" involved, even involved on an emotional level, but his agenda comes first. He is linear.  So far I see much more of the former than the latter, so, that's a nice thing

yeah, meta reads are different for every1. overall, i'm just trying to get a feel for the people here as i YOLO my way thru hell. i dont use them as a crutch or foundation for any argument tho.

yeah, it's definitely a wfiom argument @ur2ndpost, but i think wifom is a bit of a buzzword. we're mafia players, we're supposed to be able to read interactions like that. frankly, i see it as comin from town more than anything, and while i know it's a little out there, so far the only cases on LG are his role and his last post. neither of those work for me, so i'm gonna stick my guns.

idk, i'm fairly sure there's at least 1 deepwolf with how many wolves were hit. town doesn't do that well without scum having a hand in it imo, and nks seem to point in that direction. i might do nk analysis just for funsies bc i like it a lot, but i think we're lookin at a much more complicated game than lol!LG. i do still think arc is a wolf with a deepwolf partner tho.

that was from cory :p.

[Makaze]

From a purely info standpoint Arc lynch is pretty good compared to LG

Even if I'm right it's not exactly helpful in any way

[Killthestory]

MY WORDS KEEP ENDING UP IN QUOTES RAAAAAH TOWN HERO KTS IS ANGRY 

[Makaze]

I think that your playstyle and mine are pretty similar re: stream of consciousness I just document my thoughts more and I never shy away from reading someone

we both think looking bad doesn't matter

and its easy to tunnel on that. especially with a tmi scumtell read

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

@SatsumaFSoysoy @Snike

Are you still scumreading Mack? Why or why not?

I still think our hypotheticals make sense, but considering we were handed a gift as well, I'll concede that we possibly don't have the proper read on what Shinori was even doing with his role. I'm still wary of Mack, but he's back to Null-land for me.

[Makaze]

just keep showing your process when reading and don't get lazy. especially when its a major wagon. always have a strong opinion

[Snike]

Here for a minute.

@Makaze Now that I've calmed down. I don't think he''s scum by the associations, but I will say that I think his case and attack on me are bad as in bad play, and I think the timing got me paranoid especially because it sounded super angry that I cased him. The other thing that bothered me is that he left no option for it to be t/t without that scenario being Kaoz is scum, which was ??? for me.

Could you also layout why my actions are in line with an ITP? I just want to see it because I think while some of that makes sense, first glance is it breaks down when we're talking about the hijack.

Also lol @Refa I think you missed my poe thing at the top of 98 when you said this. To be fair I'm having some difficulty reading kill now but that was my second to last post on the subject before this.

 

[Makaze]

Back to tinfoiling. Other than that LG TMI read, there was one other tinfoil that I kept considering and dismissing during work today, and that was the off the wall idea that Alette could have been Mafia killing Jaybee for automatic indefinite towncred, which would explain why she has been so unhelpful otherwise. My thought process was this:

Suppose you sub into a mafia dayvig slot, have not read the game, you just lost two Mafia the previous day, and you are watching a third scum buddy get lynched without a hitch. Assuming you are Mafia, would you Dayvig a scum buddy, or would you take the very risky move and Dayvig some other town player who wasn't a primary lynch target? How would this look when the lynch ended up Mafia?

In this world, LG's claim is probably real. In this case, I'd very much like to hear details on this role. @Lord Gaius please come back and have real content? please?

Realistically, I think this is an incredibly bad play, but I think Alette has not been actually helping her team no matter what she is, other than killing a Mafia. Even if she is right about Snike, she has the wrong reasons, and I see no reason to expect her to get a case that takes into account anyone's entire ISO. I can't imagine her making a case off of more than one post at this rate.