Kirby's Return to Mafia Land - Game Over

[CT075]

except this one is stupid in that it doesn't have the "there's unsaved content save it?" dialog fuck gedit

[Sunwoo]

@kirsche: I HIGHLY resent you saying that you know my thought process better than me and that I'm deluding myself into thinking that my vote on Izuhark is a placeholder vote. You're welcome to think that the case is bad or even scummy, but you really should have stopped saying that my vote was a placeholder when I said it was not, and just said why it was bad.

And I did read your reasons for why you thought my vote on Izhuark were bad. I just disagree. I spent one paragraph asking him for reads and two explaining what I didn't like about his actions. I criticized him for not saying anything productive about the rest of the game even when he was present and reading more than leaving his vote on you. Leaving a vote on an old scum read in itself isn't scummy. But when other things are going on, and you're not giving a clear opinion on any of it and choose to keep your vote on an old scum read despite saying there are current people you'd like to vote for just gives me the impression of someone who's trying to delay giving content or committing to a vote for as long as they can.

I feel like kirsche's reasoning for giving Blitz tracker is good. Although I don't agree with his case on Refa, I don't feel it's coming from scum. But I still have an uneasy feeling about him, which I'll hopefully be able to pin down once I can read the thread more in-depth.

Read through Mitsuki's ISO just now. My initial impression was that there were a lot of ~words~ and I had a hard time figuring out what she was trying to say, but after another read-through I … really can't say I take any issue with her? I think that now that I am actually reading her posts I can't say I find her actions or reasoning scummy.

What even is Clarinets' role. Also, do you have any reads?

Michelaar already seems to have a lot of votes on him, so I'll hold off onto my vote because I don't want to risk a quickhammer. I definitely feel that SB is townier, while Michelaar has nothing at all.

I'm gonna be busy Skyping, so I have to cut this post short. But for now, aside from the obvious scan results I don't like Clarinets and have a not-so-good feeling about kirsche. Nothing's changed about Izhuark either.

[CT075]

people who think kirsche is scum: do you think that we're scumbuddies

[Refa]

the thought didn't cross my mind until you mentioned it and now i'm paranoid fuck you

[Refa]

Mitsuki, I can't really remember any games where Elie has been particularly mad as scum before (uh, if you could point me to one or just mention it that would be aces). My scumtell for him is that his logic makes more sense and that he spends more time replying to people and getting into arguments over making cases. I don't really get the same feeling from him this game, although it'd be easier to read him after he finishes reading the game himself.

[Refa]

*less sense, his logic makes LESS sense fuck me

[Mitsuki]

@Cam: Definitely not, but not because of interactions.

Mitsuki, I can't really remember any games where Elie has been particularly mad as scum before (uh, if you could point me to one or just mention it that would be aces).

Quickhammer mafia but mostly Doomsday clock from what I recall. His walls and walls looked like bias to me there because of how he was mad, but it's just very similar to how he's mad here.

Not sure but I also believe he's more prone to do extremely bad stuff as scum than as town. In Quickhammer Mafia he hammered early and now he's reading the thread without actually taking into account who's dead and who's alive. It's not the same but it's the same kind of bad in my opinion. I don't have enough time left to come up with the proper words to explain it but yeah.

[Zkirsche]

Mitsuki can you quote a game recently where my attitude has been any different.

I HIGHLY resent you saying that you know my thought process better than me and that I'm deluding myself into thinking that my vote on Izuhark is a placeholder vote. You're welcome to think that the case is bad or even scummy, but you really should have stopped saying that my vote was a placeholder when I said it was not, and just said why it was bad.

I clarified that I thought you were acting like it wasn't a placeholder vote on purpose (scum trying to big up their case) but I feel less inclined to believe that this is the case. Mafia is all about reading into what people truly want/say so sorry I got it wrong (I did say that at the end of the post).

I spent one paragraph asking him for reads and two explaining what I didn't like about his actions.

[spoiler=o rly?]

Izuhark, do you have any actual reads? I noticed you say you'd sheep the Clarinets votes or vote Michelaar, but why? Your vote is still in kirsche. Do you still think he is scummy or that his post is the most "anti-town" thing in this thread? Also, do you have nothing else to say about Randa and Freyjadour? Even if their argument will lead to nothing, do you think either of them could be scum or is it just a town squabble?

Don't like how Izuhark puts more thought into defending himself than actually scum hunting, and comments on Randa and Freyjadour's argument only to say that it seems like a whole lot of nothing. I appreciate he explained his reasoning for kirsche vote, but that was 6 pages ago and I'd like to see him say more on things that have happened rather than clinging onto kirsche.

have a problem in that he decides to stay on his kirsche vote because he's waiting for more content from kirsche, when he had expressed an interest in Clarinets and Michelaar … which he hadn't really explained. The only "new" thing he's commented on is stuff about Randa and Freyjadour, which he decides doesn't mean anything. Even when he's around he seems to avoid giving any thoughts on things that are current. Basically feels like he's saying very little in a lot of words.

I bolded everything which has to do with him not being able to give enough reads on people's actions or alignments.

Mitsuki's Elie case makes me think slightly better of her and I think I was jumping to conclusions. Flip flop. Refa/Elie scum team calling it, place your bets.

There might be scum amongst inactives too. Every post made by an active player sans Refa makes me feel better about them.

[Zkirsche]

I love formatting now in SF. What we had two years ago was way worse. Yep.

[Zkirsche]

So I copy+pasted three paragraphs of Boron to show the factual inaccuracy, and bolded the parts of her argument that have to do with reading. Just to be clear.

[Sunwoo]

Maybe it's the fucked up formatting, but I literally have no idea what you're even getting at, kirsche. How is the last paragraph NOT explaining what I didn't like about him?

Actually, you know what, I'm done arguing with you about this particular point. It's not getting anywhere and I'm getting annoyed outside of the context of the game.

[Elieson]

@Elieson: Why didn't you take into account who's alive and who's dead before making that post? A lot of useless content there. Either way if you're really this busy you should ask for a replacement.

For the record, I only recall Elieson being this type of mad as scum, as town when he gets mad it's more like he feels that he's right and he's mad at his scumreads for being scummy and nobody noticing. This is probably going to sound stupid but Elieson mad as town looks like he's holding a flag at the top of a cliff while shouting "JUSTICE" to the sky before a specially epic battle and Elieson mad as scum looks like he's surrounded by flames and burning with rage while screaming to everyone he can scream to.

Because if I'm going to analyze the death cause behind Blitzie-kun and Proto-kouhai, I might as well take into account their posts and try to place myself into the situation at the time so I can try to grasp an understanding of the moment and assume that the reason for their deaths wasn't entirely based on their role designation alone.

That doesn't sound stupid though...it's actually kind of flattering. Though I still have no idea why you assigned me a PR that originally read to me like it was completely destroying my ability to contribute, (which I've already completely screwed up)

For what it's worth, I'm 99% sure that there will be repercussions for having not followed my bestowed PR but since I've already earned them anyway, it's not like it matters. The bottom line is you gave me a PR that kicked me in the pants and made me not want to come back and try and for that I'm genuinely mad, and I realize while typing this that I'm probably going to have a clouded impression of you from here on but I literally cannot think of a town reason why you decided to add a PR to me, a person who had barely posted at all, which would debilitate my ability to contribute, or even moreso, assign a PR to a guy who hadn't really actually done anything and could've arguably gone on to have not posted at all for the remainder of the phase. What was the town-intent behind it?

Btw I just got home after helping my shit-faced drunk parents host a miserable party and now I smell of spilled tequila and crawfish even after a shower so I'm just going to postpone my continuation of the game's read until tomorrow when I've had a chance to get out of this literal and metaphorical funk.

##Vote Randa-kun

##FoS Mitscum-chan

I don't even care, unless something drastic changes about Randa-kun in the next 10 pages of reading that more or less proves him town, this is where my mind is right nwo.

[MancerNecro]

I'm not really feeling well today so I don't think I will be able to make a post. If or when I recover later on in the day or tomorrow morning, I'll take some time to participate in the game. Sorry guys.

[Mitsuki]

Mitsuki can you quote a game recently where my attitude has been any different.

I can't, my argument is not based on meta. I just know that not being very nice is null for you, but the way you were not being very nice feels too forced, which is the scummy part.

What was the town-intent behind it?

Did you get to the part where I said I was townreading 9 people and Clarinets was my only actual nullread? Not that much has changed since then. And to the part where I explained why SB/Michelaar/you were the only viable targets for my role, and how it works?

Yeah, you should definitely read that first.

I guess the way you're reading isn't scummy by itself after you explained it but it still looks like a lot of wasted time to me.

[Mitsuki]

@Kirsche:

The post where you say Blitz is bad is post #161, back in D1, and you're commenting on post #120 by Blitz there. Next post by Blitz is his role assignment, which logically comes after your own. You're saying that you gave Blitz tracker because you were the most confident in him being town, even if you were not sure. You didn't include Blitz in your lynch priority, sure, but what made you suddenly decide Blitz was townie and think he would use tracker well when nothing had changed?

@SB: You said that you thought there was scum between Cam, Kirsche and me. Do you have any conclusions on that? If you decided that wasn't relevant anymore, why?

[Zkirsche]

Remember an awful post doesn't mean a scummy post. I wasn't scumreading Blitz. He was, out of the people remaining (which included Boron, Clarinets, Elieson etc) the person I found least likely to be scum. That doesn't mean I thought he was particularly townie.

Him using the tracker well is just a symptom of him being somewhat competent.

Elieson's frustration feels very real right now but that could be town or scum frustration so it's basically null, although I suppose it is more like the "shouting in a ring of flames" scenario that Mitsuki described so I'm very interested in seeing if he flips scum now.

[Mitsuki]

Sometimes I think about stuff and then I forget to post it in the thread.

I would be ok with hammering soon by the way, just not yet. I want to wait until people answer my questions, but this phase is getting boring.

Clarinets' role is ??? He probably should just take himself out of every day phase for maximal cop scans. Scan Mancer first to determine what sanity you are.

Not saying this is scummy, but why scan Mancer first?

Also I don't like the last paragraph on this post by Boron, particularly when she mentions that what Randa has done is "certainly questionable and worth keeping an eye on". I'm not entirely sure why, but it doesn't feel natural.

I don't like Kirsche either when he says he's "interested" in seeing if Elieson flips scum, for the same reasons I didn't like what Boron said. I'm overall less suspicious of him though, but I'm less suspicious of Elieson as well so sigh. I feel like a reread of this whole game would probably help me, but that would be effort.

[SB.]

I thought I made another post yesterday but apparently not desu.

I'm still not 100% sure on what Clarinets' claim is but if they're an alt night colourblind cop then the role goes from op to basically useless considering the first night they could get off a report would be Night 4 desu? Idk why you wouldn't try to get your cop online earlier either but now it's not completely breaking balance I guess I believe it desy?

@Mitsuki, my feeling is that kirsche is scum and I don't know about Cam desu. I feel like kirsche is posting a lot of stuff that isn't really that helpful desu, like the stuff on your claim/Clarinets' claim and I have difficulty believing that he has no opinion on them desu. I feel like he's scum trying to keep his options open desu. As for Cam, my read is basically similar to a feeling I sometimes get from scum BBM where I can tell he's scum but don't really to back it up with desu. I mainly felt there was scum between the three of you because it felt like a case scum would latch onto if you weren't scum yourself desu.

Elieson is town desu. I feel like scum Elieson wouldn't care that much about a PR limiting his contributions since he wasn't under a lot of pressure and his rage looks real desu.

I'd probably be voting on a kirsche lynch tomorrow desu. I feel like we should hammer Michelaar soon desu, because getting motivated with a very obvious lynch target is kind of hard desu.

Can we get votals desu?

[SB.]

With a dead tracker I have no idea who's worth protecting at this point so Izhuark should protect at this point desu. Getting a potential cop report on Day 6 by keeping Clarients alive for that long is kind of a crapshoot (and I don't even think the game will last until then) so I guess it's just a matter of targeting someone townie desu?

[SB.]

Mancer asking Mitsuki to claim her role without doing it himself is interesting desu.

[Mitsuki]

Votals 2.0, since the mods didn't make votals yet

Michelaar (4): Refa, Mitsuki, Mancer, SB

Not voting: everyone else

There are approximately ??? hours and ??? minutes until phase end.

Hammer is 7 votes.

[Mitsuki]

@SB: Clarinet's can't be protected. Izhuark should protect someone who's overall percieved as townie.
Also Mancer claimed his role, kind of. He said he's a miller and a mass roleblocker in a post he made but I don't know how that works. @Mancer: specify.

I was assuming he was action roleblocker but if for some reason he can roleblock kills he should use his mass roleblock N2.

[Mitsuki]

why scan Mancer first?

Nevermind I found out myself, I had forgotten Mancer was a miller. But I still think that it's better to use the cop on two other people as if it were comparison cop than waste a cop scan to confirm sanity.

[Zkirsche]

Different people, different thoughts. I'd rather make sure tbh.

I have difficulty believing that he has no opinion on them desu.

My opinion was that you were wrong about it's existence being too town sided (Especially when the probability that one of our investigative roles gets given to scum is high). Actually, with the existence of a miller I think it's even more likely that town has more than just one comparison cop. That means he's probably telling the truth but that doesn't tell us if he's town or not. Oh boy I sure am happy I wasted my time thinking that through rather than just assuming it was null.

Mancer asking Mitsuki to claim her role without doing it himself is interesting desu.

Interesting being scummy or interesting being townie? Now THIS is how scum keeps their options open SB. ;/

Is everyone townreading Refa? SB thoughts on him?

[ZoesMad]

Votals 2.1

Michelaar (4): Refa, Mitsuki, Mancer, SB

Randa (1): Elieson

Elieson (1): ?????

Not voting: Michelaar, Izuhark, Cam, Boron, Clarinets, Randa, Kirsche

With 12 alive it takes 7 to hammer. Phase End is in approximately 38 hours and 20 minutes (DLS may have screwed me up.)

Michelaar has been prodded and may be subbed soon.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Lord Gaius