Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Glad to see Ike mananged to save your voice :P

Ike and Ephraim are similar enough in personality that I'm sticking to the story that Tana was attracted to me by me soloing a map with him.

[Korath88]

Since pulling a Tharja yesterday saved me the 20k feathers I was going to use to give Lilina a bladetome, I used those feathers to promote my +Atk -Spd Lukas instead.

[Poimagic]

I decided to look at my flier flier emblem team and right now it's not the best:

Palla (+hp/-atk)

SF!Corrin (+res/-hp)

Units I'm taking into consideration:

Cherche (Once I get a Caeda)

Units I want for team:

Hinoka, S!Camilla

[Othin]

Ike's Steady Breath skill is very interesting. In addition to being a new, powerful passive that can be inherited unlike the Blessing skills, it branches off the "Steady Stance" skill line, replacing Steady Stance 3 with a related white-border skill like how skills like Goad Cavalry replace top-level stat-boosting skills. Steady Stance will probably be joined by corresponding Atk/Spd/Res "Stance" skills: its color also supports it being the Def version of a general type of skill, since it's yellow like Earth Boost and Armored Blow. And in addition to those, we'll probably get a "regular" Steady Stance user at some point to actually introduce Steady Stance 3.

I don't think we'll see Steady Breath or anything like it on a regular unit, because it's nuts, but the regular Stance skills seem conventional enough to be regularly available. Siegfried/Gradivus + "Atk Stance" + Vantage could be a lot of fun.

[Tolvir]

Not sure if anyone else noticed it yet, but Polygon did an interview with the devs of Heroes, with a few interesting answers.

As far as Sacred Coins go, they specifically mentioned October as far as information for them goes. Sounds like they might have some plans for October, which isnt a big surprise.

They also mentioned Badges, giving them a bit more worth in coming updates.

They also specifically talked about rebalancing older units, making them more viable. They said that is something they plan on doing, and mentioned some upcoming updates with that too.

I recommend looking over it, there were some interesting answers in there for upcoming updates, and even some behind the scenes stuff like choosing artists for characters and the idea behind some of these banners,

https://www.polygon.com/2017/8/30/16227082/fire-emblem-heroes-interview-choose-your-legends

[Anacybele]

I want to see the taker skills in this game eventually. Ike's Strengthtaker in Fates is awesome.

[Anacybele]

I want to see the taker skills in this game eventually. Ike's Strengthtaker in Fates is awesome.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

26 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Not sure if anyone else noticed it yet, but Polygon did an interview with the devs of Heroes, with a few interesting answers.

As far as Sacred Coins go, they specifically mentioned October as far as information for them goes. Sounds like they might have some plans for October, which isnt a big surprise.

They also mentioned Badges, giving them a bit more worth in coming updates.

They also specifically talked about rebalancing older units, making them more viable. They said that is something they plan on doing, and mentioned some upcoming updates with that too.

I recommend looking over it, there were some interesting answers in there for upcoming updates, and even some behind the scenes stuff like choosing artists for characters and the idea behind some of these banners,

https://www.polygon.com/2017/8/30/16227082/fire-emblem-heroes-interview-choose-your-legends

It’s not that we’re making heroes in swimsuits just to have swimsuits. Fire Emblem Heroes is a game with a lot of deep strategy and gameplay, but at the same time there are a lot of great characters, so we want to give back to the fans a little bit of fan service. This is something we’ve had a positive reaction to in the previous games. So when it came time for Fire Emblem Heroes, the development team really wanted to include that as well.

 

 

Have this said by Maeda and there you have the obvious "X ruined fire emblem" statement of the day

[Zeo]

Well, tomorrow is the big day. CYL is here. Some people have 400 orbs (a certain LP'er) some have 200, some 100, and I have... 20. I'd have around 30-35, but I spent some on the CYL blocks without regret (Hello Hector.).

This is sadly the most I've ever had saved up for a banner as I start every month with 0 orbs, still seeing my stash so small makes me realize how much trouble I have saving. But it's generally worth it.

...Maybe I should grind out the armor emblem quest just for that extra orb to expand my barracks today...

[Kaden]

33 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

They also specifically talked about rebalancing older units, making them more viable. They said that is something they plan on doing, and mentioned some upcoming updates with that too.

Aw yeah! Is it time for Odin Dark to shine!?

The weird thing about this is the issue with the whole gatcha thing and not allowing changes to happen to character or whatever since there are people who paid to get them.

The only things I can think of that might not be met with a lot of backlash or whatever is upping anti-armor melee weapons like Armorslayer to have the same MT as anti-cavalry melee weapons which is only a 2 MT difference and there aren't a lot of armor units in general excluding generic ones and either replacing everyone who has a Killer weapon with Slaying weapons or letting us somehow upgrade Killer weapons to Slaying weapons without inheriting them since the Japanese name for Slaying weapons are like "forged Killing weapons", right? Similar deal with -wolf tomes and maybe -owl tomes. Lightning Breath could have a change too, but it's not that big of a deal and more of dragons don't have any other dragon buff skills and want more units in general before rebalancing in my opinion. In these cases, you could argue that the developers overestimated the effects of anti-armor, anti-cavalry, and Killer weapons and the combined effects of Lightning Breath that warranted its +1 to special cooldown.

I doubt they'll touch -blade tomes and I doubt they'll do anything with the MT of daggers even if it's as minor as +1 MT for all daggers except maybe Poison Dagger.

With other skills, I guess Brash Assault? Instead of being half dead to use it with BA3, maybe 60% to 70%? It's still going to be a niche skill, but 70% or 60% would give it more leeway.

When it comes to units, there aren't a lot of units I feel need that big of a change. It's more of unfortunate circumstances of this is how much BST you can have and this is how many different stat spreads you can give any unit. Someone has to be an Odin, someone has to be a Linde, someone has to be a Zephiel, and someone has to be a Reinhardt. Sure, there are units like Laslow, Oboro, kind of Stahl -- dude's still useful for singleplayer maps even though if given a free Seth, Seth would probably be better -- and pre-Slaying Axe Beruka who I feel like other units are just strictly better than them and and they can't really do much since they can try to do any build, but everyone else with similar stats just have that better stat distribution or they're a trainee or villager and they're just that better. The only unit I can think of who should be changed is Jagen. Veteran units can have lower BST, but Jagen's sitting at ranged infantry BST. Just give him like 2 more HP or something and he'd have the same old man BST of Gunter. Even then, maybe veteran units shouldn't have lower BST and they could be fine with 154 BST like all the other cavaliers. Wrys is an old fart and he still has the same BST as all the other ranged infantry units.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

4 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Aw yeah! Is it time for Odin Dark to shine!?

The weird thing about this is the issue with the whole gatcha thing and not allowing changes to happen to character or whatever since there are people who paid to get them.

The only things I can think of that might not be met with a lot of backlash or whatever is upping anti-armor melee weapons like Armorslayer to have the same MT as anti-cavalry melee weapons which is only a 2 MT difference and there aren't a lot of armor units in general excluding generic ones and either replacing everyone who has a Killer weapon with Slaying weapons or letting us somehow upgrade Killer weapons to Slaying weapons without inheriting them since the Japanese name for Slaying weapons are like "forged Killing weapons", right? Similar deal with -wolf tomes and maybe -owl tomes. Lightning Breath could have a change too, but it's not that big of a deal and more of dragons don't have any other dragon buff skills and want more units in general before rebalancing in my opinion. In these cases, you could argue that the developers overestimated the effects of anti-armor, anti-cavalry, and Killer weapons and the combined effects of Lightning Breath that warranted its +1 to special cooldown.

I doubt they'll touch -blade tomes and I doubt they'll do anything with the MT of daggers even if it's as minor as +1 MT for all daggers except maybe Poison Dagger.

With other skills, I guess Brash Assault? Instead of being half dead to use it with BA3, maybe 60% to 70%? It's still going to be a niche skill, but 70% or 60% would give it more leeway.

When it comes to units, there aren't a lot of units I feel need that big of a change. It's more of unfortunate circumstances of this is how much BST you can have and this is how many different stat spreads you can give any unit. Someone has to be an Odin, someone has to be a Linde, someone has to be a Zephiel, and someone has to be a Reinhardt. Sure, there are units like Laslow, Oboro, kind of Stahl -- dude's still useful for singleplayer maps even though if given a free Seth, Seth would probably be better -- and pre-Slaying Axe Beruka who I feel like other units are just strictly better than them and and they can't really do much since they can try to do any build, but everyone else with similar stats just have that better stat distribution or they're a trainee or villager and they're just that better. The only unit I can think of who should be changed is Jagen. Veteran units can have lower BST, but Jagen's sitting at ranged infantry BST. Just give him like 2 more HP or something and he'd have the same old man BST of Gunter. Even then, maybe veteran units shouldn't have lower BST and they could be fine with 154 BST like all the other cavaliers. Wrys is an old fart and he still has the same BST as all the other ranged infantry units.

Old man BST should be just gone and i'm not saying this entirely because of "I WANT TOP TIER JEIGAN"(he need like Def Ploy and ATK dump to do that)

It misses the entire point of the game of having your favorites punches each other. I get their limitation of Tomes unit for Arena Scoring, but Jeigan is kinda bs.

Edited August 30, 2017 by JSND

[Tybrosion]

19 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Well, tomorrow is the big day. CYL is here. Some people have 400 orbs (a certain LP'er) some have 200, some 100, and I have... 20. I'd have around 30-35, but I spent some on the CYL blocks without regret (Hello Hector.).

This is sadly the most I've ever had saved up for a banner as I start every month with 0 orbs, still seeing my stash so small makes me realize how much trouble I have saving. But it's generally worth it.

...Maybe I should grind out the armor emblem quest just for that extra orb to expand my barracks today...

I'm only going into tomorrow with just a fourth of what you have (5) and there isn't a single orb left for me to collect from quests, Chain Challenge, etc. The most I've ever saved was about 40 (20 of which were from the April Voting Gauntlet) going into World of Shadows. Of course, my number of orbs will go up to 21 tomorrow assuming the quests accompanying Paralogue 11 will be the same as the last couple and give 3 orbs. The September quests should give out a total of 22 orbs if it follows past trends as well.

[Birdy]

3 minutes ago, Kaden said:

The weird thing about this is the issue with the whole gatcha thing and not allowing changes to happen to character or whatever since there are people who paid to get them.

They can make units more viable by adding new skills or even new mechanics. For one, say supports will be introduced into the game and you get certain bonuses for putting a unit on the field with others they are 'close' to. 

Let's take Odin for example. Say he has pre-build in supports with Selena, Odin and Laslow and get's small boost to certain stats for it. If he can have better stats (or give better stats to others) from these supports, it would surely make him more popular. This way, they don't have to change the character, but still make him better.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 minutes ago, Birdy said:

They can make units more viable by adding new skills or even new mechanics. For one, say supports will be introduced into the game and you get certain bonuses for putting a unit on the field with others they are 'close' to. 

Let's take Odin for example. Say he has pre-build in supports with Selena, Odin and Laslow and get's small boost to certain stats for it. If he can have better stats (or give better stats to others) from these supports, it would surely make him more popular. This way, they don't have to change the character, but still make him better.

i'm trying to think what would be the most hilarious support chain in the game based on character relations

Tharja would have the most tomes if her pair is Robin

Innes + Tana is probably the most aggresive 2 man support as far as unit quality goes

Nohrian have a redundant albeit funny Xander + Leo

Hoshidan have Hinoka, Takumi, Ryoma so lol

Reinhardt + Olwen is lol

Elibe Trio would be fairly potent if they have interchangeability with CYL with Eliwood, CYLyn, Hector

Edited August 30, 2017 by JSND

[Kaden]

15 minutes ago, JSND said:

Old man BST should be just gone and i'm not saying this entirely because of "I WANT TOP TIER JEIGAN"(he need like Def Ploy and ATK dump to do that)

It misses the entire point of the game of having your favorites punches each other. I get their limitation of Tomes unit for Arena Scoring, but Jeigan is kinda bs.

I just think it doesn't make sense since Heroes isn't a normal FE game. Old man characters having really good base stats, but crap growths in Fire Emblem Switch? Sure, whatever, and it makes sense as a balance thing. Geez, imagine an old bastard with old, godlike bastard base stats and good growths and when I mean good, I mean either normal or really good growths.

Anyway, old man characters with lowered BST because they're old. Well, now they're going to crippled or at best, a worse version of another character. Aside from boons and banes, everyone ends up with the same stats. Lucina isn't mysteriously going to be stuck with 4 base resistance at level 40 because she got RNG screwed. It's just... odd.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Kaden

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@Kaden i'm not 100% familiar with the mechanic but there should be a way to have veteran units ended up being on the level of generic unit by adjusting growth and such

Its painfully obvious they slap the old man with low BST just because they have OP skills. SI exist so now thats moot

Edited August 30, 2017 by JSND

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, JSND said:

@Kaden i'm not 100% familiar with the mechanic but there should be a way to have veteran units ended up being on the level of generic unit by adjusting growth and such

Its painfully obvious they slap the old man with low BST just because they have OP skills. SI exist so now thats moot

The reason veterans have lower level-40 stats is because their base stat total (level-1 stat total) is raised by 8 points and their growth rate total is lowered by 30 percentage points. This results in a total of −3.7 points of stats as a level-40 3-star unit (8 − 39 × 30% = −3.7) relative to other level-40 3-star units and −5.3 points of stats as a level-40 5-star unit (8 − 39 × 30% × 1.14 = −5.3) relative to other level-40 5-star units (final numbers are approximate due to rounding at multiple points in the middle).

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The reason veterans have lower level-40 stats is because their base stat total (level-1 stat total) is raised by 8 points and their growth rate total is lowered by 30 percentage points. This results in a total of −3.7 points of stats as a level-40 3-star unit (8 − 39 × 30% = −3.7) relative to other level-40 3-star units and −5.3 points of stats as a level-40 5-star unit (8 − 39 × 30% × 1.14 = −5.3) relative to other level-40 5-star units (final numbers are approximate due to rounding at multiple points in the middle).

So to get "fixed" into same as normal, the easiest fix is basically to increase their Level 1 stats total increase further and scales up as rarity increase as it fits?

[Kaden]

47 minutes ago, Birdy said:

They can make units more viable by adding new skills or even new mechanics. For one, say supports will be introduced into the game and you get certain bonuses for putting a unit on the field with others they are 'close' to.

I know and that's what the developers have been doing. Berkut's Lance really helps out Florina and Jagen in using their high resistance, Slaying Axe while crappy for Killer Axe units lets Beruka close the gap compared to Michalis and even Minerva, Wrathful Staff lets healers with high attack and speed also be good offensive support healers, the Ploy skills, defense tiles have really helped out tanky units, etc.

What I'm saying is that because FEH is a gatcha game and some people pay to get units and skills, changing things apparently is illegal or whatever from what I heard. The other thing is life isn't fair. These cards were dealt to the characters and some of them got lucky while others got screwed.

The thing is that apparently the developers are saying they want to or are going to re-balance some of the older units. If the gatcha thing is a problem, then how do you compensate people? Someone who really likes Lon'qu could have given him a Wo Dao+ and now Lon'qu's Killer Edge was replaced by Slaying Edge. Well, great, Lon'qu running Slaying Edge+ and Luna would get more damage from it than Wo Dao+ and Moonbow. Glimmer and Astra are one of the not so great specials. What if they changed so those skills uses speed to add damage? Welp, Lon'qu should have kept Glimmer if it was a speed version of Bonfire and Iceberg. 50% of Lon'qu's speed is 19 guaranteed damage without his default +3 Speed skill. Giving Glimmer to Anna would be a better idea than giving her Iceberg at this point too since she'd get 19 from Glimmer as opposed to 14 from Iceberg.

People are going to complain no matter what. I wouldn't be surprised if people complained if Armorslayer became 10/14 MT to match Zanbato just to complain. "This is complete bullshit because... it just is! UGH, Caeda, Selena, and Tobin have better weapons! DISGUSTING!"

Setsuna being an unfortunate creature having only one "high" stat, speed, and meh other stats compared to almost all units having two "high" stats and the others being average and/or low is just what she got. That's just how the cards were dealt. Oh, let's rip 2 points of her defense and give it to her attack. Fantastic, right? Is it really necessary, though? Would it even be necessary to do anything for any character? Does Henry deserve more attack or defense or HP? Do the healers deserve to do even a bit more damage without Wrathful Staff? And my answer to all of this is a complete and resounding no.

I know I'm sounding like a jerk, but with the way things are and nothing seemingly broken or "wrong", I don't feel like any of the units or skills need to be re-balanced. If the developers somehow screwed up and released Reinhardt way back with 41 base attack, then sure, that needs to be freaking fixed because that's absurd, but they didn't. Reinhardt destroys most of the cast, but it's not like a "I can reach 44 base attack because I can" destruction.

40 minutes ago, JSND said:

@Kaden i'm not 100% familiar with the mechanic but there should be a way to have veteran units ended up being on the level of generic unit by adjusting growth and such

Its painfully obvious they slap the old man with low BST just because they have OP skills. SI exist so now thats moot

Or they could just be old people who are regular units with regular base stats and level up normally.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Kaden

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, JSND said:

So to get "fixed" into same as normal, the easiest fix is basically to increase their Level 1 stats total increase further and scales up as rarity increase as it fits?

Personally, I think bumping all of their level-1 stats by 1 point each is enough to "fix" them. As 5-star units, they'll be on par with other 5-star units, and they'll be above the curve at lower rarities, which fits their "veteran" status perfectly.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Lushen]

Before Fire Embem, I played a game called summoners war.  It was famous for having really bad units that everyone held onto b/c they were almost always buff'd at some point.  Do you think FEH will ever buff units that they want to stay relevant in the meta?  FEH doesnt really need to buff units ever, b/c they release new units very frequently compared to most gatcha games, probably b/c they only need to make 4 art pieces and a sprite.

Personally, I would be fine with buffing units that get outclassed but I would not want to see a unit nerfed ever.  It would not be fair to invest in a unit, only to have it nerfed.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lushen

[Birdy]

26 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Before Fire Embem, I played a game called summoners war.  It was famous for having really bad units that everyone held onto b/c they were almost always buff'd at some point.  Do you think FEH will ever buff units that they want to stay relevant in the meta?  FEH doesnt really need to buff units ever, b/c they release new units very frequently compared to most gatcha games, probably b/c they only need to make 4 art pieces and a sprite.

Personally, I would be fine with buffing units that get outclassed but I would not want to see a unit nerfed ever.  It would not be fair to invest in a unit, only to have it nerfed.

In a way, buffing units equals the non-buffed units to be nerfed, without actually changing them.

[Ice Dragon]

26 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Before Fire Embem, I played a game called summoners war.  It was famous for having really bad units that everyone held onto b/c they were almost always buff'd at some point.  Do you think FEH will ever buff units that they want to stay relevant in the meta?  FEH doesnt really need to buff units ever, b/c they release new units very frequently compared to most gatcha games, probably b/c they only need to make 4 art pieces and a sprite.

Personally, I would be fine with buffing units that get outclassed but I would not want to see a unit nerfed ever.  It would not be fair to invest in a unit, only to have it nerfed.

The thing with Heroes that other games don't usually do is that all characters in Heroes abide by rules for self-imposed rules for stat distributions.

As other games age, their power creep happens because newer characters have flat-out better stats or better abilities, leaving older characters in the dust. Heroes prevents this by holding all characters to the same stat totals and by making most abilities transferable, giving older characters access to newer, more powerful skills.

Heroes will probably never need to buff characters directly because it already has the means to allow older characters to have access to all of the latest and greatest content through Skill Inheritance. It can buff characters indirectly simply by implementing new skills on new characters, allowing players to transfer those skills to older characters.

[Othin]

39 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Before Fire Embem, I played a game called summoners war.  It was famous for having really bad units that everyone held onto b/c they were almost always buff'd at some point.  Do you think FEH will ever buff units that they want to stay relevant in the meta?  FEH doesnt really need to buff units ever, b/c they release new units very frequently compared to most gatcha games, probably b/c they only need to make 4 art pieces and a sprite.

Personally, I would be fine with buffing units that get outclassed but I would not want to see a unit nerfed ever.  It would not be fair to invest in a unit, only to have it nerfed.

Outside of bug fixes, I think Heroes is unlikely to directly change specific existing characters or skills, whether to make them stronger or weaker. I think their preferred way of adjusting the power level of stuff that's already around is to release new stuff that supports or opposes particular strategies, such as the way Cancel Affinity, Urvan, and Mulagir are effective at challenging certain strategies (and therefore help strategies weak to them) while Armor March, Fortify Dragons, and Infantry Pulse buff specific unit types.

It's worth bearing in mind that the way Heroes is set up, purely buffing a unit is difficult. You can't just give them extra stats: each unit type has particular limits on its stat total, so you'd have to redistribute their stat points and lower other stats in the process, and that would invite all the complaints that nerfs would cause. They could be set to trainee-type stats, but that'd be really weird and seems unlikely.

That said, I think there are two categories of units with inherent issues that I think could be addressed more generally: Askr units being unable to get bonus levels and Veteran units (Jagen and Gunter) having lower stats. For the Askr units, they could add some new feature to enable spending resources for bonus levels, probably just for them but maybe for other units as well. (GHB and TT units have limited merge levels but GHB units get more copies over time and TT units probably will as well.) Veteran units could have their stats increased to be on the same level of regular units, or at least closer.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Othin

[Quintessence]

39 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Before Fire Embem, I played a game called summoners war.  It was famous for having really bad units that everyone held onto b/c they were almost always buff'd at some point.  Do you think FEH will ever buff units that they want to stay relevant in the meta?  FEH doesnt really need to buff units ever, b/c they release new units very frequently compared to most gatcha games, probably b/c they only need to make 4 art pieces and a sprite.

Personally, I would be fine with buffing units that get outclassed but I would not want to see a unit nerfed ever.  It would not be fair to invest in a unit, only to have it nerfed.

Ah, good old SW and Ifrit meta. I enjoyed using Eredas and its crowd control. Spent a lot of money on the game but got bored of it and its 'need of spending money to be actually good'.

Anyways, I think not, there's no need to do so because pretty much every unit is viable, specially with SI, as Ice Dragon mentioned. There's a chance that the incoming support system might be another reason to empower units.