We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Killthestory]

8 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I think that your playstyle and mine are pretty similar re: stream of consciousness I just document my thoughts more and I never shy away from reading someone

we both think looking bad doesn't matter

and its easy to tunnel on that. especially with a tmi scumtell read

yeah, you've definitely got me best with the whole documenting my thoughts thing. a lot of people scumread me for not fully articulating myself and just throwing out conclusions, and while it's annoying, i sometmes get it. it's my main weakness in mafia, but not one i can easily fix since i mainly phone post, and those can take hours to craft a good post. (ex, i've spent a solid 4 or 5 hours in this thread today.)

lol tunneling is funny but also good. engagement is how i get my reads, not by reading back on some posts made in a different context, so i get it.

also, noted on the second post. that's probably the best advice on my mafia play currently is i get lazy and get frustrated when people don't reach the same conclusions as I (which is kinda ironica since i was attacking makaze for the same thing)

think makaze is v. i'm defo worried im being pocketed, but i think the way he naturally progressed on me is organic and super tonally town. plus, his tunnels make sense and dont come inherently from a wolfy agenda.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Snike said:

Here for a minute.

@Makaze Now that I've calmed down. I don't think he''s scum by the associations, but I will say that I think his case and attack on me are bad as in bad play, and I think the timing got me paranoid especially because it sounded super angry that I cased him. The other thing that bothered me is that he left no option for it to be t/t without that scenario being Kaoz is scum, which was ??? for me.

Could you also layout why my actions are in line with an ITP? I just want to see it because I think while some of that makes sense, first glance is it breaks down when we're talking about the hijack.

Also lol @Refa I think you missed my poe thing at the top of 98 when you said this. To be fair I'm having some difficulty reading kill now but that was my second to last post on the subject before this.

 

The ITP was more like someone else mentioned it. I don't know your full roleclaim but they made it sound like you were a JOAT which seems pretty OP and also makes a good ITP (harder win con = more power).

[Refa]

Did LG ever post?  I'm kind of busy ATM, can probably post in a few hours.

[Killthestory]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Did LG ever post?  I'm kind of busy ATM, can probably post in a few hours.

negative, boss

[Snike]

@Makaze My roleclaim is role miller, in that I scan as Godfather to inspections. I think the confusion there might be because I got the hijack item n1.

@RefaLG hasn't posted since that role claim.

[Snike]

I guess also part of our (my and Satsuma's) role is that since we're a hydra, we have oc chat with one another but it's the same slot so I think that's kind of expected.

[Makaze]

Just now, Snike said:

@Makaze My roleclaim is role miller, in that I scan as Godfather to inspections. I think the confusion there might be because I got the hijack item n1.

@RefaLG hasn't posted since that role claim.

This is a terrible claim though. Like. Let's rolespec. Do hosts put your role in a game with no cops? What do you think the purpose of your role is in this setup?

[Baldrick]

LG was last around yesterday, just after the JB vig, claimed then bailed. One of his last posts the day before:

On 18/04/2018 at 11:42 AM, Lord Gaius said:

At the moment the biggest scumread from my reread is JB as well, and I would gladly consolidate there, but like Fable said we already have adequate pressure so I think my vote is best served moved onto the Walrein wagon right now. 

Anyway I could see potential JB and Mack / Nightmare scum scum interactions, nightmare seemed to read JB out of necessity instead of any real conviction due to his gigantic number of town / null reads, and if JB is parked on scum early it'll look better for him if Nightmare were to flip. Mack subbing in seemed to have taken some of the pressure off the nightmare slot but those interactions still seem fishy. 

 

The first paragraph I feel potentially be a bus.

The second paragraph could be anticipating a ML, since JB was a major wagon at the time.

When JB got shot and Gaius started to be a wagon, he may well have felt trapped and decided to hope a power claim could save him.

I still want Arcanite to make a decision and put a vote down, but I'm feeling the Gaius = mafia narrative more now.

 

##vote: Lord Gaius

 

[Snike]

Does a running joke count? Like again, the character is rein and Juliette. Look up Reinfleche, Miller Governor.

Also I think our role implies the existence of a role cop. The fact that that has not shown up means it might've been part of Dreaming God, or the cop is playing low key right now. Why are you assuming there's no cop in this game?

[Makaze]

I am now getting a town tone read on Kill

Which also significantly undermines my LG case

It's all going to hell unfortunately

Just now, Snike said:

Does a running joke count? Like again, the character is rein and Juliette. Look up Reinfleche, Miller Governor.

Also I think our role implies the existence of a role cop. The fact that that has not shown up means it might've been part of Dreaming God, or the cop is playing low key right now. Why are you assuming there's no cop in this game?

I'm just basing it on the claims. Guess this is where I out I'm not a rolecop lol

I also think that strategically if you had killed Shinori and were the ITP you would have ample reason to jump on anything that kill uncovered that could help clear you. Either way I think your Mack read was genuine, but there is a world where you aren't helping town in the long run. Probably did not expect Shinori to flip scum.

I think we are so far into the PoE that claiming a rolecop with any kind of helpful result solves the game. If they didn't target anyone then meh.

[Snike]

I think myself as itp makes a lot of sense results wise up to the point with the hijack.

Like, if we assume the serial killer shot at eclipse night 1 putting me as it fits. I townread her and I am not a afraid to meme.

In that scenario, my killing shinori also makes sense since he was one of my stronger townreads so shooting there would fit.

I just don't see why I would hijack mack as serial killer and claim it even if that's a little wifomy. Set him up for a mislynch I guess?

But the reality is I'm town and what I've claimed so while it's kind of an interesting hole to dive down into it's a waste of time in the end.

 

[Iris]

Day 3.19
Arcanite (7): Refa, via, Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, athena_57, Walrein, Killthestory, Omega.
Lord Gaius (6): Kaoz, Fable, SullyMcGully, Makaze, Baldrick
Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy (2): Mackc2, Alette
Walrein (1): Lord Gaius

Not Voting: Arcanite

There are ~16.75 hours left in the day. With 16 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 11 to hammer.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Iris

[Refa]

Snike, who's Arcanite's buddy?  I'm thinking about Omega's question to me while doing other things and I'm like "it has to be someone on the LG wagon" and I'm like "Fable/Sully I guess? But I'm townreading both of them".  Don't think scum busses after one of their buddies gets vigged today.

[Snike]

I had poe'd arcanite/kirsche but I think kill looks townie so if I would have to bring up one of the widely townreads I think it would be sully? I think suspecting fable's a little premature as of rn especially since he's in the double bus wagon at this point, but I think sully would be more likely.

Like I think his entrance could be passed off as new town but I've been getting a little uncomfortable with his slot as of late in part to the sheep on mack case followed by a 180 the next day when the thread turned against me. I also think the shade on walrein would fit with prior scum's actions towards him (walrein).  And in the second post I linked think the itp speculation is ???.

and even aside from that I came up with a crackpot theory that he's the itp but I kind of want to save that for after we've lynched the scumteam since it's just based on sully's caginess around the second part of his role and the second kill night 2.

I guess there's also an outside chance that it's alette in the scenario Makaze mentioned, but I think she's more likely tunneling based off of in part my eimm reputation. Like I don't think I've even spoken in depth with her in the past though so I don't know why she thinks I'm faking my reads so hard?

And like Gaius is a much easier wagon in that case so I don't see her defending him as scum after coming in as dayvig claim?

I'm going back to my paper for rn.

[Makaze]

52 minutes ago, Refa said:

Snike, who's Arcanite's buddy?  I'm thinking about Omega's question to me while doing other things and I'm like "it has to be someone on the LG wagon" and I'm like "Fable/Sully I guess? But I'm townreading both of them".  Don't think scum busses after one of their buddies gets vigged today.

I frankly disagree with your argument. This was one of the reasons I was suspecting LG as scum: I think literally everyone on his wagon is town. There's no impure motives.

By PoE I think that anyone voting off wagon looks bad. Which is why Alette looks so bad despite the dayvig.

[Makaze]

If Alette is Mafia and she dayvigged a partner I doubt she would shy away from lynching her last one (assumed number) and winning alone. She's got the clear if she does so. But yeah IDK, she's so bad it's unreadable almost.

[Snike]

I know this is going to be a little annoying, but I uh reread the shinori flip. I thought he was a one shot-strongman, but he was actually unlimited, as long as he gave an item over to his target.  So mafia didn't really have to worry about protective roles after setup. 

I'm still confused as to why they were sending an item to kaoz, though.

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, Killthestory said:

@Arcanite what question? also, it was pretty drastic considering you shot me a blanket townread before you realized i wasn't really going to change my read on u lmao.

Blanket town read? I don't think I've town read you yet this game ?

My question was why should you live

 

 

@Baldrick I read from 60-68

I'm still unsure what to think about the LG case, but after reading through everything, and seeing a part of the case on Kirsche I feel more inclined to believe that slot (kill) is anti-town of some sort, based on the other reads. I recall some agreeing with sully's case and it was mentioned he poorly defended himself while tunneling junk

I guess it's too late to start up a whole case on Kill right now though so

So I guess for now I'll just sheep the other wagon ##Vote: LG

[Arcanite]

Going to spend some time looking deeper into LG and Kirsche 

[Mackc2]

I was actually wondering something, would Shinori's Hotfix ability even get around my matyr?

[Snike]

That's a question to ask the mods but I think so since strongman means the kill ignores doctors and roleblockers. I would assume redirects as well.

You'd interfere only in setup by taking the item away from its intended recipient.

[Makaze]

In typical Makaze reread fashion, I have decided to mix up with a Sully reread.

I am not understanding why I cleared him, because from where I'm standing right now, nothing he has posted is good tonally. None of it stands out as bad, but I have not really gotten any strong tonal empathy or seen the logic in his reasoning.

Even Snike has some of that.

Quoted are all of the votes/unvotes he has made. I noticed something. Tell me if you catch it too. I'll highlight and color code the parts I think are telling.

On 4/13/2018 at 10:23 PM, SullyMcGully said:

OK, I need some sleep. Nobody posted those reads I wanted, which is fine. I might have to read back a bit. For now, I'm agreeing that Weapons is kinda scummy. That joke felt... forced, almost. And their posting style in general just seems strange to me. Then again, I'm the idiot who thought Shinori's posting style was scummy! In... that one game where he was scum. 

Still want some answers from Kirsche so that my role counts for something, but I think I'm more suspect of Weapons right now. I get where Mack is coming from wondering about whether he's always this way. So:

##Unvote

##Vote: WeaponsofMassConstruction

If you couldn't tell, I don't have any real good reads yet. I'll be able to form a better opinion tomorrow hopefully.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 9:23 AM, SullyMcGully said:

Yes... sort of. I don't wanna claim yet. However, one aspect of my role does tell me whether or not the player I targeted used night actions or not. Last night, Eliedad targeted Kirsche. Kirsche apparently used a night action.

In the last game I played, a lot of players were Vanilla/had passive roles/had roles that could only be used once or twice. If somebody had used a night action in P5, I'd say there would've been about a 50-60% chance of that person being scum. I suppose it's probably different in a game where everyone has a role. 

I still want to hear what Kirsche did last night, or at least a good reason why he can't tell.

After reading over last night's posts, I think I can clear Weapons for the moment. I'm new to Mafia, but Weapons seems fairly well-known around here and people seem to think that he's acting pretty normal. I agree with the logic that scum wouldn't draw attention to themselves like that, unless they intentionally did so as a sort of faux-townslip or something. That's something I'm not finding any more evidence for at the moment, though, and once Weapons posted his actual thoughts, I felt a lot more comfortable with his slot.

The way I felt about Weapons last night is the way I feel about Bibbon right now. He showed up, made a few posts, and left us all with more questions than answers. Unless Bibbon has townslipped or something already, I don't see a reason not to suspect them.

@Bibbon why did you claim? Doesn't that decrease your usefulness as a jailer? I'd say that's the weirdest part of what I've seen of your playstyle so far. 

##Unvote

Depending on what your answer is, I may vote you next, Bibbon.

Also, Refa and Via are giving me weird vibes. I know I need to stop relating everything in this game to P5... but in that game those two were titans. Easy townreads from start to finish. And that was with a lazy Refa and a high Via. Now, their performance is kinda... lackluster. They're stumbling over little things. They aren't engaging other players like they did then. They aren't acting like obvtown, and maybe that's just because they're under suspicion? Maybe they're both busy IRL? Maybe Via is trying out a new type of weed and it's throwing him off? But maybe it's because they aren't town. 

All of this is based just on what I've seen over D2 so far though. I'll go back and read D1 if I have time after school today in a few hours. If there's any big D1 stuff I'm missing, feel free to add it to my "recommended reading" list!

I'll be back in a few hours.

 

 

On 4/14/2018 at 7:19 PM, SullyMcGully said:

I'm still rereading D1. The Walrein stuff is a joke, based on his early D1 content and the recent argument over Martyr definitions. 

I'm not sure what to make of Kirsche at the moment, some of his content is scummy, but I can't make a case until I finish D1. I no longer see his using a night action as scummy, his reaction to me thinking he was scummy rubbed me the wrong way but I want to go over his D1 stuff before coming to a conclusion.

I don't have a lot of reads yet. I suppose Kirsche is one of the scummier ones, but I don't have a real reason for that yet. I'm more suspicious of Bibbon at the moment, and I'll go ahead and put a vote there because it doesn't seem there are many others. 

##Vote: Bibbon

Sorry, Wally. I forgot that it's a little too late for memes now. 

 

On 4/15/2018 at 1:25 PM, SullyMcGully said:

What's up with these subs? This game is reaching like an EiMM-level of actual players! And most of the current players actually play EiMM...

OK, so having a thousand thoughts right now, I need to sort them all out. I'm really liking these sub entrances, but I'm pretty sure that at least one of you subbed in for scum. Because a lot of those roles were kinda scummy before. But right now I can't even keep which one of you subbed into which role straight... gonna go read the OP again, I guess.

##Unvote

I'll give the subs some time to reorder themselves while I work on a case on... someone. I need to read over these last few posts a bit.

 

On 4/15/2018 at 2:40 PM, SullyMcGully said:

Vote: JB

I suck at Mafia. I'm going to sheep Athena and BBM for now, I still feel weird about Kirsche but even after rereading I still can't put my finger on it so I'll leave him be. The subs are throwing me off a lot. I'm kinda starting to see the old Junko case logic make a bit more sense now, but I'm going to let RAD post a bit first. Of all the subs, IMO Mack is the scummiest. But there's still so little to go off of.

@Fable if you need a conversation starter with Mack, try Waluigi. That's his favorite.

Agreeing with the sentiment that one of the scum is in deep, but with my scumhunting abilities, don't expect me to be the one who catches it. I can't reconcile Eclipse wanting us to be hush-hush about our roles with her being scum. And Shinori seems pretty good too, I read Kirsche's case on him but it doesn't seem as much like a scummy player as it seems like... Shinori, just being Shinori. In fact that's actually what bothers me most about Kirsche. That Shinori case was weak IMO. Too weak to be worth a voteswitch. 

@Omega. seeing your logic, but I'd prefer to lynch for scum, not just an associative read. So I'll hold my vote off of those two for now and see what they do. 

I'm really thinking Athena is town. If you're currently voting Athena, I want to see more of you actively pushing him for info and less of you sitting there on a case. I have a feeling that he could get cleared as town with enough action, but scum wouldn't want to lose their precious wagon. 

Sorry guys. I was hoping I could be more useful, but that's all I've got. Also, I'm going to be pretty darn busy over the next few days, so don't expect that much from me. I'm going to try and hold out though. The last thing we need this game is another sub.

 

On 4/15/2018 at 10:55 PM, SullyMcGully said:

Unvote

 

On 4/15/2018 at 11:21 PM, SullyMcGully said:

@Omega. here's an idea! Why don't we lynch you and if you flip scum, we'll be able to assume both Kirsche and Junko are town!

That was a joke, however, Omega's confidence almost would suggest that he already has a fair idea how things are going to turn out. Could be trying to take out two townies in fast motion. 

Could be his personality though.

Question: 

How do we know for certain that there is a vig this game?

 

On 4/16/2018 at 10:40 AM, SullyMcGully said:

Hey ya'll. I'm kinda rushed right now, and I'm basing this all off of a very minimal reread, but here are some points:

-When Eclipse first got on, I thought she wasn't doing very well defending herself and I thought it might be scummy but then she started the whole in-depth thing and I think I'm OK with that slot for now.

-OK, so on the whole Kirsche/Junko deal: I'm... kinda cool with Omega's big plan here, EXCEPT I really think we oughtta lynch Kirsche instead of Junko. First off, if I had been subbed out of a scum slot I don't think I would offer to sub back in for any amount of time! Second, the logic on the Junko case is based off of a bunch of posts and reads that neither RAD nor Junko has had time to defend against. In the meantime, Kirsche has made multiple defense posts which have failed to get rid of the suspicion on him. He's had time to defend himself. We should all feel better about this, but it seems like very few people do and the fact that so many people would rather lynch MIA Junko than has-time-to-post-but-still-feels-scummy Kirsche bothers me.

-Mack also bothers me. The way he's posting is kinda weird compared to his Kemono Friends and P5 play. In those games, he made much larger and more frequent posts, addressed many more issues, and while he was at times scummy-seeming and some of his better moves can be attributed to a certain secret player who shall remain unnamed, I still feel like he could be doing better. So he's unmotivated? IMO scum are more likely to be unmotivated. If I were scum, I would certainly feel less motivated. And I know Mack pretty well, I don't think there's anything going on for him right now that gives him a great excuse to be as low-content as he is here.

I would vote Mack right now, but I don't think it's a good lynch and I might not make it back before deadline. So instead

##Vote: Kirsche

I'm assuming we're gonna settle on either Junko or Kirsche. I'd prefer to lynch Kirsche. I'm pretty sure ya'll can lynch Junko without my help anyway.

 

On 4/16/2018 at 3:11 PM, SullyMcGully said:

OK, the Shinori voteswitch here bothers me a bit, as I already stated. I found a post of Omega's which covers this as well, he says it sounds like Kirsche is just picking out a post to find problems with. IMO it was a weak read and his defense of it later was unsatisfactory. Like, yeah, those were all problems that could be pointed out with the post, but was it really worth a voteswitch? What was scummy about it as opposed to just bad townplay? Why couldn't he just ask Shinori honest questions if all he wanted were answers?

Then Kirsche switches to Mack and he goes back and digs up old Nightmare suspicions as if he's had a serious scumread there all along. But I just read over Kirsche's D1, and Kirsche's first Nightmare read is pretty insubstantial. Most of his problems with Nightmare come from his posts dealing with Mack, not from back when Nightmare was actually a player. 

Then there's Junko. In the process of reading back over Kirsche I read the Junko posts he seemed to have the most trouble with. While I wasn't paying much attention earlier, Junko seems legitimately frustrated with Kirsche. Kirsche tunneling I can get, but I feel like he blew the actual issues with Junko's posts out of proportion. Then, when players get on his case for tunneling on Junko, Kirsche throws out two weak, short-lived cases on players he wasn't very adamant about before. Then returns to tunneling Junko. 

I'm starting to question Omega's logic that either Junko or Kirsche needs to be scum. I'm not picking that up from my own reading, but I have a poorer sense for that sort of thing. I'm not completely averse to the idea that they're both town, but Junko actually feels town to me while Kirsche is bothering me a lot more.

I forgot why I quoted this one, actually. This doesn't really bother me too much, but I'm pretty sure Kirsche was calling Zeus null in the posts I read from that time period. 

 I should address this: I was referring to D2 with my post, while Kirsche has been active D2 and, IMO, suspicious (I recall a few other players saying Kirsche was suspicious at the time I wrote that post, but I could be wrong), Junko and his ill-fated sub have not.

I get that Kirsche has been asking town-friendly questions. He's the one who brought the whole stupid neighborhood deal to people's attention, along with other things. But I remember P5 Mafia. Kirsche was one of my top townreads in the early portions of that game. He was a decent contributor and asked good questions. It was only once scum flipped and we got further with associative reads that we managed to put the pieces together. And then I got mislynched in Kirsche's place because Via was too high to save my butt. I'm worried Kirsche could pull another game like that. 

As far as other stuff goes: I feel like leaving my vote where it is. Ya'll can lynch Eclipse or Junko without me if you need to, though I really don't think Junko is scum. I see some of the logic on Eclipse. I actually didn't want her to be lynched because I figured I could use my role on her tonight (her being mayor and all), but now that I think of it, chances that she (assuming she's Mafia) would carry out the NK tonight are pretty low.

However, if she does flip town, then my suspicion would fall on BBM. Like I said earlier, getting a player like Eclipse mislynched would be a major win for the mafia, and I would bet that one of the players highly proactive in bringing it about would be scum. 

I'd really like it if Eclipse herself would say something. JB and LG's votes in particular feel kinda sheepy, but both of those slots have promised rereads and better info D3. We'll just have to see what happens.

Kaoz's recent post where he talks about how we shouldn't lynch him if he doesn't die tonight makes sense, I guess. It would also make sense for scum trying to get the most out of their jailer claim to say that as well, though. Honestly, that statement made that slot seem scummier to me.

That's all I've got for now. I need to take a break. I won't be back before deadline most likely because our dear hosts scheduled it right over milking time. :cow:

 

On 4/17/2018 at 7:05 PM, SullyMcGully said:

##Vote: JB

Since Eclipse was apparently town. More logic coming later, but I have something else to take care of now. 

 

On 4/17/2018 at 7:06 PM, SullyMcGully said:

Could an SK have Janitor powers? 

Because I was kinda scumreading BBM on an equal level with Shinori last night.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 12:33 PM, SullyMcGully said:

Alette, just... why?

I was going to make a post on JB explaining why I thought he was scummy so I would at least appear to be contributing something.

What am I supposed to do now?

sigh

##Vote: Mackc2

My case from D2 still stands mostly uncontested. When I get time, I'll look at associative reads and role stuff which will probably prove me wrong. But I think Mack has been acting different in comparison to his meta, and it's not an improvement. I don't think he's been scum before. Some of his posting early in this day phase feels like he's asking questions to get better townread more, but they aren't really the brightest questions IMO.

I need to go to work again.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 1:08 PM, SullyMcGully said:

This is what I deserve for tunneling a tunneler for tunneling. 

The way it goes is ##Vote: Omega.

But why the heck? Omega's obvtown. At least that's what I think. Is this a joke? 

##Unvote

##Vote: Mackc2

Need to look into this more.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 1:45 PM, SullyMcGully said:

I would rather have an LG blitz than the Makaze/Eclipse thing everybody seems to be all about. Still thinking over Mack, though.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 11:00 PM, SullyMcGully said:

TBH, there is one thing that kinda rubs me the wrong way about Kirsche: He subbed out after a lynch which would have had him being generally townread. If he was demotivated because he was being scumread or ignored by Junko, then that should all be at an end now. Instead, he left. TBH, I would rather have unmotivated Kirsche now than Kill. He's... a character... I don't like his play so far and if it weren't for all of the reasons to townread Kirsche's slot, I would scumread Kill. He's the most anti-town we've gotten since Zeus left.

Not liking Mack in the Mack/Snike interactions. Mack drops a weak post, Snike responds with a detailed read... I'd say, with all the shade Snike has been casting on Mack's slot throughout the game, if we lynch Mack and he flips scum, then we get Snike cleared. I can't be of much use with all of this role madness going on.

OK, I'm going to confess something. If it looks like my reads are getting lazy/weak, it's because they probably are. While I would love to devote more time to this game over the next few days, due to IRL circumstances, I can't. I should still be able to check in and keep this slot from being the victim of yet another sub, but I'm going to be less informed and probably less helpful from here on out. 

Yeah, my vote's on Walrein because he's being scummy and ignoring us. Um... I'm checking out for the night, so I guess that's not a good reason. 

##Vote: Mackc2

I have yet to hear a compelling reason for the change in your playstyle, Duke. If you continue to low-effort this game and ignore the arguments on you, I really won't mind lynching you.

Arcanite, LG, and Walrein are also OK lynches with me. Somebody should ping @Arcanite though so they can show some effort before we lynch them.

 

17 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

No. I already half-claimed. I'm not gonna full claim. Why do you ask?

Nah, I don't think Mack's interactions are scummy anymore. It's just Mack being Mack! I know Mack pretty well. And his posting has managed to satisfy my questions with his slot. Not to mention Makaze has raised a few good points in his favor.

Sort of agree? I quoted this when I saw it, but Snoyke's later posts caused me to doubt that.

Sorry I don't have time for a more substantial read. 

##Vote: Lord Gaius

I'd rather lynch here than lynch Arcanite. The amount of effort Arcanite is putting into rereading seems like something he wouldn't do as scum. Maybe as an ITP, though.

Also, couldn't Snoyke be an ITP? Even if their role has been proven, can't SKs be OP with multiple roles to make up for what they lack in numbers? 

Gotta go to work. 

 

8 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

This is Arc. I know him/her/they/it better than most anyone else in the game, and I can easily see them saying what they did as town. They don't take the game as seriously as most of us do, and they're mostly here to meme anyway. The only difference is that they are the meme. And I'm only being half-joking with that.

Really not feeling an Arcanite lynch. I'm also really not liking the way Walrein is pushing Arc on really poor reasons. Arc's actual play isn't scummy at all, LOL. I mean, yeah, it would be coming from someone else, but I'm pretty sure that regardless of whether Arc was town or scum, they'd be acting the same way. If they were taking this game seriously: that would be scummy.

Walrein, get another read. This one isn't convincing at all. It's just making you look worse.

If anyone can guess what the colors mean I'll give you towncred.

[Makaze]

19 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

I was actually wondering something, would Shinori's Hotfix ability even get around my matyr?

In my opinion this is No. However, I think this is a question @Iris could answer since it is a flipped role, and town is supposed to understand what that role is. Strongman and Strongwilled are independent, and if it doesn't explicitly say it can't be swayed, then it can be. Strongman is physical strength, but redirectors affect aim, not strength.

[charlie_]

There is no role/mechanic in the game which could prevent a valid target of Shinori’s flipped Strongman ability from dying. This includes redirection roles.

[Makaze]

Well, that makes the Jailer seem pretty bad. Mafia had a stopgap for BOTH sides of the coin. Must be to stop the SK then? It's god tier that the SK somehow managed to kill the biggest threat.

I seriously doubt a world where Mafia have both a jailer and a strongman on their team. That is the opposite of balance.

@Kaoz

Please come into thread and give an update?